honcho Posted June 1, 2015 Share #21 Posted June 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ektar is indeed a lovely film: I agree, it's quite unique and I like it. It does have a well-known conspicuous red bias (visible in your images above) which seems to frighten some on here, but it's no big deal and easily tamed. Back to the OP's question: if you can afford the outlay for the 50 summicron asph, then get it. A 28 f2 summicron asph and a 50 f2 apo summicron with my MP would complete my personal ultimate travel photography set-up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 Hi honcho, Take a look here APO 50 FILM images. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
MarkP Posted June 1, 2015 Share #22 Posted June 1, 2015 I agree, it's quite unique and I like it. It does have a well-known conspicuous red bias (visible in your images above) which seems to frighten some on here, but it's no big deal and easily tamed. Yes, but I specifically wanted that colour in those photos. A 28 f2 summicron asph and a 50 f2 apo summicron with my MP would complete my personal ultimate travel photography set-up! I love my 2/28 Summicron ASPH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted June 1, 2015 Share #23 Posted June 1, 2015 and so I'm personally wondering if a nice M-A combined with 50 APO is actually going to be really a really great combination that will last 40 years. As much as I enjoy shooting film, I doubt that Ektar or any color film will be around for another 40 years. Also, if you go that route, you will be better off with a 50 lux or even a Noctilux. You will quickly need the extra stops. And you better plan on getting a bunch of drum scans done of your best shots to really appreciate the difference between these lenses on film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 1, 2015 Share #24 Posted June 1, 2015 Hi Ai_Print, I'm really glad you and others shined through for me. Not knowing where to post this subject, I first tried the film forum http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/245648-apo-50-film-images/ only to get replies that were besides the point. So I posted the topic here in this Leica M Lens forum and crossed my fingers. I figured since the M lenses can be used with both film and digital M bodies, I thought why not. And, the response is good! Thank you for concurring with me on how the qualities of the 50 APO can surely transfer over to film. And as time goes on, there will be more enthusiasts who will be utilizing a whole new line (when available) of APO lenses with their Leica film bodies. Hey Barnman - Seems as though you really just want to hear people help rationalize your GAS. Of course, you are completely free to do what makes you happy and, if this release of GAS indeed achieves this, I say by all means go and do it. You only live once and why not enjoy the finer things in life. I would never dissuade you in this regard. Having said this, to say that that the view that I expressed (in your Film Forum thread) questioning whether it is cost beneficial to spend $8K for a 50 APO to use with only film is "besides the point" only reconfirms to me that it is YOU really may be missing the point. I never said that the 50 APO wouldn't produce excellent images with film; I merely said that I believe that you will be hard pressed to get materially sharper results relative to the 50mm lux asph - which is 50% cheaper - than you would with, say, the Monochrom. I was making a point about incremental cost-benefit Thanks for sharing. This is the first I've seen of the APO 50 on film. Of all the images, there's only about two (at most) that show the characteristics of the lens. For a site that's looks to be reviewing the APO 2.0/50 lens, I'm really surprised of the editing and quality of the scans. I can't wait to see MarkP's results. I don't think these examples are that far off of what you'll get. I personally don't see the $8K value here... In the end, GAS nearly always overcomes reason. And we all have our episodes of GAS... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai_Print Posted June 1, 2015 Share #25 Posted June 1, 2015 I never said that the 50 APO wouldn't produce excellent images with film; I merely said that I believe that you will be hard pressed to get materially sharper results relative to the 50mm lux asph - which is 50% cheaper - than you would with, say, the Monochrom. I think this is universally understood but there is, at least in my opinion, a bit of a dollop of underestimating here. I have in every single case, seen a good to remarkable improvement in image quality, mainly sharpness when using a lens with film that is widely known to have been "improved" in order to play well with digital. Also, there are a lot of moving targets on this topic...tons actually. It would be pretty easy for a film image shot on Rollei ATP 1.1 with the APO to outpace an MM 246 shot at ISO 10K. The other thing is that how any lens performs on any camera or with any film in terms of wow factor is 110% dependent on the user. If the photographer who chooses the 50 APO is buying it because they know they have the talent to make it really shine, then it really won't matter what the image ends up on, digital or film, it will shine. For the most part though....I think the majority who own this lens want it because they like to know they have "The Best" or love swimming in pixels on a 5K monitor and seeing that their 7-8K was well spent. With that said, I agree, the 50 Lux asph will be a much more versatile and less expensive journey to achieve a real world result that is in most cases 99.9999% of what the 50 APO is celebrated to do. I'm interested in trying the 50 Apo, but like the .95, I highly doubt I would ever buy it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share #26 Posted June 2, 2015 And you better plan on getting a bunch of drum scans done of your best shots to really appreciate the difference between these lenses on film. In my case, no worries. Viewing optically from my Leica slide projector is my end use. And for those who do their own darkroom printing (color and/or B&W) will greatly benefit too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted June 2, 2015 Share #27 Posted June 2, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) In the end, GAS nearly always overcomes reason. And we all have our episodes of GAS... So True! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodluvan Posted June 2, 2015 Share #28 Posted June 2, 2015 Hey Barnman - Seems as though you really just want to hear people help rationalize your GAS. Of course, you are completely free to do what makes you happy and, if this release of GAS indeed achieves this, I say by all means go and do it. You only live once and why not enjoy the finer things in life. I would never dissuade you in this regard. Having said this, to say that that the view that I expressed (in your Film Forum thread) questioning whether it is cost beneficial to spend $8K for a 50 APO to use with only film is "besides the point" only reconfirms to me that it is YOU really may be missing the point. I never said that the 50 APO wouldn't produce excellent images with film; I merely said that I believe that you will be hard pressed to get materially sharper results relative to the 50mm lux asph - which is 50% cheaper - than you would with, say, the Monochrom. I was making a point about incremental cost-benefit In the end, GAS nearly always overcomes reason. And we all have our episodes of GAS... holy mutton, I was going through the thread, thinking the exact same thing, perplexed as to why the question was humoured at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share #29 Posted June 2, 2015 Hey Barnman - Seems as though you really just want to hear people help rationalize your GAS. I would never dissuade you in this regard. Having said this, to say that that the view that I expressed (in your Film Forum thread) questioning whether it is cost beneficial to spend $8K for a 50 APO to use with only film is "besides the point" only reconfirms to me that it is YOU really may be missing the point. Hi A miller, Almost everything you typed is besides the point. About what you just said above, I never questioned if "it is cost beneficial to spend $8K for a 50 APO." Where you got that from I have no idea. If you look, I said "I'm interested to see how film can take advantage of the APO 50." And I wanted to see examples of it. You also said, I could buy a "mint condition has or contax 645...with a full stable of lenses and all the trimmings for the cost of the 50 APO." Again, a response besides the point. The point about the Leica 35mm format is about it's portability to easily capture quality images with equipment on a smaller scale (when compared to a larger format) without having to lug around all that weight. It's the whole reason why the Leica camera was designed in the first place. With each generation of Leica lens, that goal is continually realized. You also said "I doubt you'll get your money's worth." Again, besides the point. I do however understand your concern about my money and that your values may vary from mine. So to let you know what "worth" means to me, I defined it for you by typing "The quality that renders something desirable, useful, or valuable." Just so that you know, those are all characters I recognize and are highly desirable to me when it comes to the APO 50. I understand you don't feel the same way. I never said that the 50 APO wouldn't produce excellent images with film; However you did say; "The chromes you mentioned all need to be scanned before they can be printed...and you'll lose some sharpness, even if it is very minor...but that's all it takes to narrow the gap b/n the APO and non-APO 50mms" Fair enough. Even though I no longer work in a dark room, you'll be happy to learn my end use is optical projection with my Leica Pradovit RT-m. So no worries about loosing any sharpness with scans or lesser quality camera lenses. About the film I use, I shoot with B&W and color transparency films. (The B&W negatives get reversed processed as slides.) If you have any images to share (regardless of format used,) I'd be happy to look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 2, 2015 Share #30 Posted June 2, 2015 Barnman - most of the other posts in this thread are also not technically responsive to your literal question, but you didn't affirmatively rebuke them. Why? Because they said what you wanted to hear! There is a good reason why there is a vast universe of sample of images of the 50apo with the MM and M240 and an utter dearth of examples of the 50apo with film. of course the reason isnt that the 50apo will produce bad images on film - or even that it wont produce amazing images. it is simply that, in a rational world, it make no sense to purchase this lens for use exclusviely with film. That is not to say that you shouldnt buy one for the pure enjoyment of life, similar to how I (completely unjustifiably) purchased a brand new MA for a multiple of what i could have spent on a used but perfectly usable M. I look forward to seeing some of your film images with your 50 APO. I am confident that, where there is a will to get the most out of it, there is a way and you seem determined to find that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share #31 Posted June 2, 2015 Barnman - most of the other posts in this thread are also not technically responsive to your literal question, but you didn't affirmatively rebuke them. Why? Because they said what you wanted to hear! There is a good reason why there is a vast universe of sample of images of the 50apo with the MM and M240 and an utter dearth of examples of the 50apo with film. of course the reason isnt that the 50apo will produce bad images on film - or even that it wont produce amazing images. it is simply that, in a rational world, it make no sense to purchase this lens for use exclusviely with film. That is not to say that you shouldnt buy one for the pure enjoyment of life, similar to how I (completely unjustifiably) purchased a brand new MA for a multiple of what i could have spent on a used but perfectly usable M. I look forward to seeing some of your film images with your 50 APO. I am confident that, where there is a will to get the most out of it, there is a way and you seem determined to find that way. Hi A miller, I hope others don't misread or misunderstand what I'm typing. In the first post of this thread, I never asked a question or "literal question" of any kind. Simply, my first post on this thread requests "If you have any samples, or in the future decide to try the APO 50 with film, please share." So as far as questions go, there's nothing to rebuke. And as you said, there's "utter dearth of examples of the 50apo with film." That's why I started this thread. And, it will be interesting to see what kind of results Ellie gets when he gets the film back from his comparison shots with the APO 50. The good news is I'm learning what seems logical to me that film can in fact recording in full detail what the Leica APO 50 lens can send to it. If that is incorrect, please let me know. Of course, with all the right conditions I believe it to be true, film can in fact faithfully record all that can be sent from the APO 50. If I do purchase the APO 50, it would in fact only be for a film camera. Of course I don't have any images from a APO 50 lens, however if you'd like to see some of my images shot with my Leica R9 and Apo-Summicron-R 1:2/90mm ASPH lens (all on film of course,) Visit http://www.leisuretimephotography.com and here within these forums http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/217280-samples-from-cinestill-film-zero-one-and-two-stop-pushes/?p=2812620 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timde Posted June 2, 2015 Share #32 Posted June 2, 2015 Its fun to do things that don't make much sense. I'm already planning to rescan my Ektar images shot with 40mm VL, and take some new ones with an Elmarit 28mm. And if I can sort out my too grainy black and white processing then an M-A + 50 APO is on the cards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 2, 2015 Share #33 Posted June 2, 2015 I posted the first from my APO 50 here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/page-240?do=findComment&comment=2826360 It's not a high res scan though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 2, 2015 Share #34 Posted June 2, 2015 Barnman - Horses for course: I sold my 90 APO b/c it was far too clinical for my taste and purposes. I replaced it with a 75mm summilux and absolutely love it. It gives me the dreamy rendition that I love. I sincerely hope that you will purchase the 50 APO and that you will have fun on your journey. I would never unfavorably judge another Leica user for making an irrational purchase. That would be very hypocritical on my part. I do, however, think that it is always fair game to raise the cost-benefit issue for discussion, as it is often the elephant in the room. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted June 2, 2015 Share #35 Posted June 2, 2015 I've never tried the APO with film. But I have noticed limitations at the edges (ie, softness and field curvature) on VERY large prints using the latest 50mm non-APO Summicron (and 150mb scans off Acros) that I entirely assume would not be a problem at all with the 50mm APO. Shove the camera on a tripod + APO ++ Adox CMS 20 +++ drum scan ...,,, and I think one is into a different league of detail but moreover "naturalness" than any digital Leica Monochrom can achieve at very large print sizes. With the downside of that tripod, and nearer to ISO 12 speed on the CMS film, and need for perfect development with the specialist developer - but to me, the "perfection" of the output, combined with film's "natural" trait is worth the work and hassle for SOME images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted June 2, 2015 Share #36 Posted June 2, 2015 That's a perfect reason why one would really need to check the lens out in person, those images fall well short of the photographic situations one would expect this lens to excel in. A super expensive lens to capture what? Oi! EDIT: To be kinder, I suggest that those who are relatively new to photography and who spend something like $10,000 USD on a lens, then try an old lens of the same focal length. It might be a liberating experience. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted June 2, 2015 Share #37 Posted June 2, 2015 Your comment is absolute. Here's a quote from a website talking about resolution... "each film pixel represents true R, G and B data, not the softer Bayer interpolated data from digital camera sensors. A single-chip 87 MP digital camera still couldn't see details as fine as a piece of 35mm film." The Digital Resolution of Film http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/film-resolution.htm Not to challenge it but below is one more data point. Lloyd Chambers sees average 12mega pixel in 35mm film scan. Some may be as high as 22mega pixels but certainly not as much as current top of the line digital sensors. My own experience (with mediocre film equipment though) is that I never got more than 10 mega pixel in film scan. Of course there are other characteristics that are desirable in film over digital but I am only talking about the resolution. http://diglloyd.com/articles/GrabBag/photographic-film-was-not-much-of-a-performer.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share #38 Posted June 3, 2015 I posted the first from my APO 50 here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/page-240?do=findComment&comment=2826360 It's not a high res scan though. Wow, even with the scan not being high resolution, the B&W image is certainly telling of that lens! Also, besides the fact the exposure looks to be right on; the clarity and detail is outstanding especially for that fact XP2 is a 400iso rated film! If you ever decide to get a high resolution scan of your APO 50 images, please share. I'm sure they will be outstanding. In addition, it was fun reading your surprised statement of how effective that lens is at making what seems to be a great improvement with the film you used. That being said, I think it's a testament for anyone on the side lines about using their M film cameras with the APO 50. Outstanding. I think the color image is delicate and very nice. At the same time, I can tell it would help to have a much higher resolution scan to make that image really shine. At least on my high resolution calibrated monitor, the detail is too small for what was captured on film to be faithfully reproduced. Even so, I can clearly still see a very nice rendering of the subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share #39 Posted June 3, 2015 Unfortunately, that link doesn't work...at least when I click on it. Not to challenge it but below is one more data point. http://diglloyd.com/articles/GrabBag/photographic-film-was-not-much-of-a-performer.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai_Print Posted June 3, 2015 Share #40 Posted June 3, 2015 it is simply that, in a rational world, it make no sense to purchase this lens for use exclusviely with film. I apologize in advance if I am mis-reading it but this just makes no sense to me & it kind of sounds like film is not up to the same task of exploiting the lens that digital is. I am strongly considering renting this lens for a project using Techpan film that will be a set of still life images of certain things painted entirely black with insane lighting. That will absolutely exploit the very limits of this lens, especially when darkroom printed to 20x24 and above. These are images I could easily shoot in TP in medium format but I I feel there is a certain look it might impart with the 50AA. While not the planned subject matter, the lighting in the attached image is exactly what I am talking about where the lens would excel in. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/245731-apo-50-film-images/?do=findComment&comment=2826753'>More sharing options...
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