Need some QUICK advice on Printing

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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As usual I am jumping into something new without a lot of thought but time is not on my side (I only have a week left before I go back to work) so anyway here we go.

I want to start doing my own printing (for fun) and mainly printing in B&W size A2 but also be able to print in colour. I have been guided into getting a Epson 3880 and plan to buy one of those today if I can find one in stock here in Malaysia along with some paper and ink, so my questions are;

1. What is the best paper to get for printing B&W
2. What ink should I get
3. What paper should I get if I want to print in colour

As usual any help or advice would be much appreceated

[LocalHero1953]

Paper choices - which are up to you:

 

- Matt, semi-matt/lustre, gloss or art textured matt. Gloss for best detail, matt for lovely finish and warmth.

- Longevity: fibre (wood or cotton are long-lasting and feel nicer) or resin-coated (often brighter/whiter, but more likely to change colour; feel plasticky).

- Longevity: chlorine bleached paper, optical brighteners or not: brighter, whiter prints, but better without.

 

High end paper is fibre based (cotton rag is supposedly better than wood fibre), and has no optical brigheners, chlorine etc.

 

There's a vast range of paper.

I use Canson Rag Photographique (matt), Canson Platine Fibre Rag (semi-matt) and Canson BFK Rives (art textured). I also have Hahnemuhle German Etching (art textured), but it duplicates the BFK Rives and I won't replace it. All these produce lovely prints.

At the cheaper end I use Permajet Oyster (RC lustre) for stuff which is not very important: compared to the papers above it looks a bit chilly.

And I use Epson Matte card for greetings cards and the like

I don't use gloss.

 

I have an Epson 3000 which uses the same Epson inks as the 3880, but I replaced them with Permajet's continuous flow system and inks, and I am very happy with the colour. I don't know if Permajet operate or supply to Malaysia. There are others out there.

More important than anything with inks is getting your system calibrated screen-printer-ink-paper. Permajet offer a profiling service, as do many other paper/ink suppliers: you print a test image, post it to them, and they email you a profile that matches your printer, paper and ink. Change any one of those and the prints will not look good.

My experience is mainly with colour and I am happy with the results I get. To be honest I struggle printing B&W, either using the printer profiles referred to above, or Epson's own B&W printing system. I never seem to be able to get a truly neutral colour - I circle round various faintest tints of blue pink and yellow. Something I need to do more work on: others seem to manage OK.

 

Edit: if you plan to mount your prints under glass, then the high end textured and matt finishes may be a waste of time, except to avoid additional reflections. For my own use, I now mount and frame without glass, unless they are with reach of small sticky fingers.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Paper choices - which are up to you:

 

- Matt, semi-matt/lustre, gloss or art textured matt. Gloss for best detail, matt for lovely finish and warmth.

- Longevity: fibre (wood or cotton are long-lasting and feel nicer) or resin-coated (often brighter/whiter, but more likely to change colour; feel plasticky).

- Longevity: chlorine bleached paper, optical brighteners or not: brighter, whiter prints, but better without.

 

High end paper is fibre based (cotton rag is supposedly better than wood fibre), and has no optical brigheners, chlorine etc.

 

There's a vast range of paper.

I use Canson Rag Photographique (matt), Canson Platine Fibre Rag (semi-matt) and Canson BFK Rives (art textured). I also have Hahnemuhle German Etching (art textured), but it duplicates the BFK Rives and I won't replace it. All these produce lovely prints.

At the cheaper end I use Permajet Oyster (RC lustre) for stuff which is not very important: compared to the papers above it looks a bit chilly.

And I use Epson Matte card for greetings cards and the like

I don't use gloss.

 

I have an Epson 3000 which uses the same Epson inks as the 3880, but I replaced them with Permajet's continuous flow system and inks, and I am very happy with the colour. I don't know if Permajet operate or supply to Malaysia. There are others out there.

More important than anything with inks is getting your system calibrated screen-printer-ink-paper. Permajet offer a profiling service, as do many other paper/ink suppliers: you print a test image, post it to them, and they email you a profile that matches your printer, paper and ink. Change any one of those and the prints will not look good.

My experience is mainly with colour and I am happy with the results I get. To be honest I struggle printing B&W, either using the printer profiles referred to above, or Epson's own B&W printing system. I never seem to be able to get a truly neutral colour - I circle round various faintest tints of blue pink and yellow. Something I need to do more work on: others seem to manage OK.

 

Edit: if you plan to mount your prints under glass, then the high end textured and matt finishes may be a waste of time, except to avoid additional reflections. For my own use, I now mount and frame without glass, unless they are with reach of small sticky fingers.

I just found out that Epson have come out with a new model SureColor P800. I will wait until they become available in KL

[stuny]

_{Once you get your printer be certain to use it, even just a bit, frequently.  If you don't ink will dry at the cartridge outlets clogging them, thereby requiring you to replace the ink cartridges, an expensive situation..}

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

_{Once you get your printer be certain to use it, even just a bit, frequently.  If you don't ink will dry at the cartridge outlets clogging them, thereby requiring you to replace the ink cartridges, an expensive situation..}

The month away on the rig isn't going to hurt is it?

[LocalHero1953]

I haven't timed it, but I wouldn't have thought a month would hurt.

I have less problem with clogging heads than with with the continuous flow ink system, back-siphoning of ink from the tubes to the bottles if left too long. I've also had a couple of the chips on the CFI cartridges fail (i.e. printer says it doesn't recognise the cartridge; chips replaced for free by the supplier). These are just the downsides of massive savings in ink costs: I sold the new Epson cartridges that came with my printer on eBay, and recovered about 50% of the cost of the printer.

[wlaidlaw]

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I have also recently bought an Epson refurbished 3880, which I am delighted with. I have found Hahnemuhle Photo Baryta Silk excellent for both B&W and colour. I really wanted to get Ilford Gold Fibre Silk but nobody had it in stock in A2 in France. I have ordered a set of refillable cartridges from Joe Cone at InkJet Mall/Piezography and a large bottle of Piezoflush. I intend to stick with Epson original inks because my printing volume is not huge but I will use the Piezography cartridges for head flushing and printer storage when it is left in France during the winter. The advantage of the Piezography refillable carts over some others is that you do not have to take the chips off an old Epson cart which had at least 10% of the ink left. On Joe's carts you can use the chips off empty Epson original carts.

 

I understand his ink sets both colour and black and white are excellent and if my print volumes were greater, that is what I would use. Obviously that would mean I would need two sets of the refillable carts, one for ink and one for flush. InkJet Mall is here http://shopping.netsuite.com/inkjetmall . Joe is very attentive and even confirmed the order I made on a Sunday, the same day. The order was sent off the next day. Now all I need is for French customs to get their finger out and process the package which has been sitting in Roissy Airport for the last five days 

 

Wilson

[wda]

A printer idle for a month could lead to nozzle blocking. For that reason, as my printing needs are random and unpredictable, I find it more economical to use a good commercial printer to meet my occasional requirements.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

A printer idle for a month could lead to nozzle blocking. For that reason, as my printing needs are random and unpredictable, I find it more economical to use a good commercial printer to meet my occasional requirements.

 

Hi David

I hear you and yes I have an excellent commercial printer that prints all my website sales but I want to give it a go by myself.....if you know what I mean

Not my website stuff but pictures for exhibitions, mates etc etc

[Guest]

I understand his ink sets both colour and black and white are excellent and if my print volumes were greater, that is what I would use. Obviously that would mean I would need two sets of the refillable carts, one for ink and one for flush. InkJet Mall is here http://shopping.netsuite.com/inkjetmall

 

Would you please post once you have received your new equipment as to the quality and ease of use. I have the new Epson A2 s800 printer on order and have read good reports on the quality of the Black and White printing from Piezography who use 8 different black / grey inks. Having said that Michael Reichman is very complementary about the new Epson Inks.

BrianP

[wlaidlaw]

Brian, 

 

I will do that. I hope the Piezography order will arrive either tomorrow or Wednesday but French civil servants only turn up for about a 32 hour week and probably work for only half of that and of course, today is YET another public holiday in France. 

 

I did a lot of reading about A2 printers before I bought the 3880. For what I have read, the 3880 is not bad on ink head blocks and a big improvement on the 4880, where I was told you frequently need to use the "Magic Bullet" head unblocker system or similar. I also looked at the Canon iPF5500 but my local print shop who had been using them and the previous 5100, told me to run a mile, due to paper feed gear-train breakages and I have had loads of trouble with feed problems on my A3+ Canon Pixma-Pro-1 printer. HP have not replaced the DJ90 17" printer, which as it was dye inks, was of no interest to me anyway and their 24" photo printers are getting really expensive, so really Epson was the only player left. 

 

Wilson

[Jeff S]

Neil, you should also consider the SureColor P800, which is the latest replacement for the 3880.  

 

A quick search will give you loads of discussions on inks, papers, etc.  For b/w, I typically use Canson papers…Infintity Baryta Photographique and Platine, the latter a bit warmer base.  But I stock others.  Good paper profiles make a difference…mine are custom….others prefer using a RIP like ImagePrint…but that's getting ahead of the process.

 

Don't expect printing to be 'plug and play'.  Making a good print in the digital world is not much different conceptually than in the darkroom….only the tools have changed.  The percentage of great printers (people) in the world is probably far less than the proportion of great photographers.  It's easy to crank out a pretty decent print, but might take years to learn the nuances required to make prints that 'sing', and most of that requires a good eye and lots of practice in additional to a deep understanding of the tools and concepts….plus, obviously, a great image (file) to start.  The devil is often in the details…and patience is required (no offense, but seemingly not your most obvious characteristic!).

 

If I were you, I'd stick with stock Epson inks for now.  Going the Piezo route (all black ink set) introduces an additional level of complexity, and many additional variables, that will get you distracted and confused….plus it requires a dedicated b/w printer if you want convenience as well.  Here's a good post on one person's journey….   http://jeffreyhughes.net/wordpress/2014/12/21/adventures-in-piezography/

 

Jeff

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Jeff

I have just come off the phone with the Epson rep her in KL and he says that the new SureColor P800 will be in Malaysia in July so tomorrow I am going out to try and buy one of these trial packs of different media in A4 and have a go at printing on my current HP Photosmart all in one printer 

I will let you know how I get on

[Jeff S]

I added some thoughts to my above post…re-read the edited version.

 

Jeff

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I added some thoughts to my above post…re-read the edited version.

 

Jeff

I did and yes you are correct............patience is NOT my virtue (something like that anyway

[Baddog]

I don't think you will have any head clogging problems if you keep your printer in a room that is not too dry. I own an Epson 7900, 3880 and a R3000 and have had no trouble with any of them. The 7900 is only used in the summer ( it resides in our summer home ) each fall I do a head cleaning, cover it carefully, pull the ink cartridges and take them home. During the winter the heat is turned off and temperatures drops to about minus 20 Celsius. . I fire it up in May ... And it works perfectly. Conversely the 3880 sits idle all summer, each fall it gets fired up and no clogging. I have owned a lot of printers over the years and these two models have proven to be the most trouble free.

Allan

[Jeff S]

The 4900 is the real problem child for head clogs….tons of reports.  I suspect there will be a P series replacement at some point, just like the P600 (R3000 replacement) and P800 (3880 replacement)….but 4900 replacement will require more work IMO than just new P inks.

 

Jeff

[Guest]

Brian, 

 

I will do that. I hope the Piezography order will arrive either tomorrow or Wednesday but French civil servants only turn up for about a 32 hour week and probably work for only half of that and of course, today is YET another public holiday in France. 

 

I did a lot of reading about A2 printers before I bought the 3880. For what I have read, the 3880 is not bad on ink head blocks and a big improvement on the 4880, where I was told you frequently need to use the "Magic Bullet" head unblocker system or similar. I also looked at the Canon iPF5500 but my local print shop who had been using them and the previous 5100, told me to run a mile, due to paper feed gear-train breakages and I have had loads of trouble with feed problems on my A3+ Canon Pixma-Pro-1 printer. HP have not replaced the DJ90 17" printer, which as it was dye inks, was of no interest to me anyway and their 24" photo printers are getting really expensive, so really Epson was the only player left. 

 

Wilson

The 3880 is a very good printer with a great reputation. I spoke to the Epson people at a recent Calumet open day and would have ordered the 3880 but was offered a 3  year warranty plus some A2 paper on the new P800. The basic mechanics of the printer are the same as the model it replaces 3880 but the advantage is the new ink set ,especially the mat black.I am toying with buying the Piezography inkset for my Epson 2880 as I am not keen to use 3rd party inks on a new printer which is under warranty. 

Good luck with the French customs people .

BrianP

[wlaidlaw]

I was very pleasantly surprised how good the profiles supplied by the paper makers (Ilford, Epson and Hahnemuhle) are. The colours and B&W gradations were spot on. It was only really the brightness which needed tweaking, which with the auto brightness of my Retina MBP was no shock. 

 

Wilson

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[LocalHero1953]

I found custom profiles were essential for third party inks - without them the results were terrible. Standard downloadable profiles were OK with Epson inks, but I concluded custom ones were still better and worth getting. YMMV.