Monochrom M246 Reviews

[dkCambridgeshire]

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Seems that either the M240 sub-forum should include the MM246 in the heading, or there should be a separate sub-forum for Monochrom cameras.  Pros and cons...

 

Jeff

 

Separate Monochrome sub forum would enable discussion of non-Monochrome cameras', monochrome capabilities 

 

dunk

[Jeff S]

Separate Monochrome sub forum would enable discussion of non-Monochrome cameras', monochrome capabilities 

 

 

I wrote 'Monochrom', not 'monochrome', sub-forum.  

 

Jeff

[earleygallery]

I find it odd that there are already so called "reviews" of this camera out when the camera it self has not been out.

 

One might consider the fact that true reviews of equipment like this can only be 100% relevant when someone has put thousands of frames through this equipment over the course of 3-6 months, preferably in a full time professional setting. 

 

I'll give an example of the value of "reviews" right out of the gate: 

 

I read about a half a dozen reviews of the Fuji X100T before buying mine in November of last year. Not one of those so called "reviews" mentioned the utter insanity that is the viewing of the menu or menu like items in that you either have to keep your eye glued to the VF to see them making it really interesting in making sure you press the right button for adjustments or essentially put the camera in live view to see them on the rear LCD from which 4 more button pushes are needed to bring the camera back to VF mode.

 

After the last firmware update did not fix it, I sold the damn camera...

 

Beware of the "Internet Gear Review Hero" is all I am saying....

 

Let's not forget all the 'reviews' of the original M8 that failed to mention the problem with purple blacks. I remember reading one pre release review in the BJP and noticed the odd purple clothing in some of the example images. 

 

I don't think that no one else noticed it either. Obviously it was agreed that this little issue would be overlooked in any published 'reviews' - not sure that actually helped Leica in the long run.

[BerndReini]

Let's not forget all the 'reviews' of the original M8 that failed to mention the problem with purple blacks. I remember reading one pre release review in the BJP and noticed the odd purple clothing in some of the example images. 

 

I don't think that no one else noticed it either. Obviously it was agreed that this little issue would be overlooked in any published 'reviews' - not sure that actually helped Leica in the long run.

The M246 is a camera that is based on the M240. I do not expect any significant technical surprises close to the IR sensitivity of the M8. It is an MP 240 with the Bayer array removed, how bad can it get?

[algrove]

I think if I had owned an M8, by now I would be using another camera other than a Leica. As far as the M8 not helping Leica in the long run, I know from every past M8 owner that Leica did not ingratiate themselves to those end users at all. Every antenna with them has been up and active ever since that mess up. Many of them have switched to other cameras which will take the Leica glass they revere. You can shoot yourself in the foot just so many times and sadly the straw that broke the camels back most recently with many of these friends was the M9/ME/MM sensor problem. Multiply that all over the world and you see why Leica is continually discounting cameras and lenses in 2015. Of course this is not the only reason for lagging sales, but so far discounts are not working this time around as they have in the past. I know Leica is commited to full employment, but producing more of what is not selling seems like another shoot theyself in the foot approach. At least from what I heard many weeks ago they finally shifted substantial production from the M240 to the recently announced M246 and that is no doubt why they can start delivery just 10 days after introduction which is unheard of in Leica terms, but we are operating in a new normal for sure these days.

Edited May 3, 2015 by algrove

[BerndReini]

I loved my M8 and I still look at some large prints made from it with amazement. The M8 was and is an amazing camera. I didn't like having to use the IR filters in front of the lens, but the per-pixel sharpness that the camera produced because of the week IR cover glass is still breathtaking by today's standards. Being an early adopter of the M8, I was able to buy a Noctilux f1 new from Leica for $2,795, and being my first digital rangefinder, the M8 was instrumental in developing my style as a photographer. No regrets whatsoever. Every antenna should be up for any new camera, no matter who the manufacturer is.  Leicas tend to bring a lot of joy to most owners, and you will find a lot of previous M8 owners on this forum that have stayed with Leica and purchased one or more of their recent cameras. As a matter of fact, most M8 owners were lucky, because they bought lenses before prices skyrocketed.

[-Lss-]

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I think if I had owned an M8, by now I would be using another camera other than a Leica.

 

Okay, but I am still today using my Leica M8 as happily as I started using it years ago. I have used many cameras along it from several manufacturers, and dismissed or upgraded them one by one. And if I had the money, I surely would already have upgraded to a newer M model as well as there are improvements over the M8. Just not significant enough considering my budget.

 

It is however now the new M Monochrom that I eye more seriously than any previous new model to the digital M line. It has some flaws (these are flaws of the M typ 240), but it is a mature and improved camera with a good sensor. It is finally such a significant step in product quality and image quality over the M8 that it starts to make sense to somehow find the money for the upgrade. I may not be able to, but I will try to do it. I know this is a camera I would be able to use for many years, just like the M8. I think the M8 would still be there for me as a color option and a second body, although I already hate the idea of two battery and charger types. (Or three if I would bring another camera for some purpose.)

[Lenshacker]

After reading that the new M246 is using 12-bit pixels, I'm reminded that the firmware in the M8 limited it to 8-bit pixels. The sensor in the M8 is capable of much better results, and "the button dance" and M8RAW2DNG have unlocked it's true potential. It's like getting a new camera.

 

I don't know why Leica chose to go with 12-bits for the new M246 when the M Monochrom and M240 use 14-bit pixels. I would like to know more about the technical reasons involved.

 

I bought a slightly used M8 almost 6 years ago now, still have and use it. I also bought the M9 and M Monochrom since then. (After seeing a comment regarding price of lenses skyrocketing)... I paid for the M9 and M Monochrom by selling lenses bought before the prices skyrocketed.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Lenshacker

[stevelap]

...................I know from every past M8 owner that Leica did not ingratiate themselves to those end users at all.................. 

Well you don't know it from me........I'm a happy previous M8 user who went on to buy an M9.

[Jeff S]

I think if I had owned an M8, by now I would be using another camera other than a Leica. As far as the M8 not helping Leica in the long run, I know from every past M8 owner that Leica did not ingratiate themselves to those end users at all. Every antenna with them has been up and active ever since that mess up. 

 

Any consumer who doesn't have 'antenna up' with totally new technology (before buying) is more adventurous than I.  Skipping the initial M8 was a no-brainer for me, happy to stick with film M's until the jury was in, ultimately testing and being satisfied with the M8.2. 

 

I've had zero problems with two M8.2s, one I retain as back-up, or with an M240.  I skipped the M9 series cameras…no need to buy every iteration when what's working is just fine…and plenty of time to let the dust settle and follow the track record on the new model(s).  It seemed clear to me that going full frame would introduce more challenges for a digital M….no surprise with sensor cracks, red edges, etc.   Life is a lot less complicated when printing is the goal, not jumping on the next new gear.

 

The M246 looks promising, especially given the mostly proven M240 platform, but time to let the dust settle and see….then test.

 

Jeff

[pgk]

I have an M8-2 and M9. Both are capable of excellent imagery. Excellent cameras both. I have just been shooting with both on a trip away and user error was far more evident than camera problems (any there were, were my fault for running batteries down to zero). No UVIR filters as I couldn't be bothered - and I think one image in well over a thousand showed a jacket slightly purple.

 

I was asked by a Leica film user whether I liked the digital M cameras as he had heard that there were problems. My response to him was that you should not believe everything you read on the web and that, whilst they may not be perfect, they do deliver.

[jaapv]

Well you don't know it from me........I'm a happy previous M8 user who went on to buy an M9.

Nor me - I bought my second M8 in Januari 2007....

[jonoslack]

Let's not forget all the 'reviews' of the original M8 that failed to mention the problem with purple blacks. I remember reading one pre release review in the BJP and noticed the odd purple clothing in some of the example images. 

 

I don't think that no one else noticed it either. Obviously it was agreed that this little issue would be overlooked in any published 'reviews' - not sure that actually helped Leica in the long run.

As a "reviewer" - and communicating with other reviewers, I can promise you that the one thing we all dread is to miss something major . . . the idea that one would agree to overlook something is so alien as to be unthinkable.

[dkCambridgeshire]

Let's not forget all the 'reviews' of the original M8 that failed to mention the problem with purple blacks. I remember reading one pre release review in the BJP and noticed the odd purple clothing in some of the example images. 

 

I don't think that no one else noticed it either. Obviously it was agreed that this little issue would be overlooked in any published 'reviews' - not sure that actually helped Leica in the long run.

 

What an assertion and totally unsubstantiated … utter bunkum and balderdash and likely libellous . 

 

dunk

Edited May 4, 2015 by dkCambridgeshire

[Lenshacker]

It's not a flaw, it's a feature.

 

I1016036 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

My favorite VNIR camera.

[asiafish]

Until very recently the M9 Monochrom was widely held to be the ultimate in B&W 35mm-format photography, praised in particular for its high-iso performance amongst other delicious qualities.

 

I'm not happy about the inevitability with which indisputably wonderful tools can so quickly become inadequate to the extent that many are prepared within a year or two to pay good money to replace them. I understand how it works and I'm as guilty of it as anyone so no criticism is intended, but it is an unhappy trap into which we are all tempted.

 

I suspect it does nothing whatsoever to improve our photography either.

 

Not everyone feels the need to upgrade, and some of us actually look for and relish the older tools.  Its no different than a film shooter preferring the older M2 to the newer M-A (or in my case a love affair with the M5).

 

I have owned the original M Monochrom for two years now and have probably taken about 10,000-15,000 frames with it (not nearly enough).  I remain incredibly fond of it and still consider it my prized possession after the release of the new model.  It is my primary camera and when looking for a color body to use alongside it I opted for a brand-new M-E rather than a new or used M (typ 240).  Of course the M240 is more advanced, but I valued commonality of batteries and controls over the improvements in technology.  

 

I'll completely skip the M24x generation and perhaps even skip whatever follows it.  I'm not sure, but today on May 3, 2015 as I write this, the image quality of the M Monochrom Classic is still incredible, and it will likely be years before I fully master its capabilities, if ever.  Ditto the M-E, which produces the most beautiful color I've ever obtained from a digital camera.  I could probably do the same or perhaps better with an M240, but other than high ISO there is nothing in the M-E's performance that I find lacking.

 

In short, the M9 generation is every bit as good today as it was last week, and will remain so as long my sensor holds up or Leica is able to repair it.

[asiafish]

What, and miss out on the vege photos?  Not a chance.  Bring on the greengrocer!

I'm not in the market, and Sean's review (and Jono's) was very helpful to me in deciding to continue with the original Monochrom.

[asiafish]

Each to their own.

I really like my M7 and Monochrom in flat black chrome (and it's very subtle silvering on worn edges).

However, my M240 is silver.

 

I own and love the original black chrome camera, the M5.  I love that my original M Monochrom matches it so well.

[asiafish]

Well, I did -twice- and couldn't be more happy

 

I've bought based on Jono's reviews three times now (M Monochrom, X Vario and X typ 113).  No regrets yet, and so far everything he's said about the cameras, good and not-so-good, has been spot on accurate.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[asiafish]

I bought a silver QM2 Monochrom for $4,650. That's a significant price difference to the new Monochrom. I also shoot with an M9 and didn't upgrade to the M240, so I have a lot of batteries and an Arte Di Mano case. The interchangeability is convenient and adds up to another couple of hundred dollars if not a thousand. I also own and shoot with a film MP and an M7. Leica said they stand behind their product as far as the sensor corrosion is concerned and I have enough back up bodies to not have to worry about any Repair turnaround. The way I look at it is that I would pretty much have to sell my MP, and it would not even make up for the difference in price to the new Monochrom. I also considered that a lot of users may upgrade and sell their used MMs, but at the price I paid for this MM, I would rather have it new. Aside from this it is silver, which I think is beautiful. And yes, I own plenty of color filters from my film cameras. I have shot a lot with my friends MM, so I know what to expect. I'm definitely excited about the purchase. It's been a long time coming.

 

Ditto.  When Leica said they will stand behind the sensor, I immediately made the decision to buy an M-E to go along with my early M Monochrom.  I love using both, and will continue to do so for many years.  If one of them should have sensor issues I have no problem sending it off and using many other Leica cameras while waiting for the repair.  I don't expect that to happen though, as my guess is that sensor failure is far from universal. My M Monochrom is already two years and about 15,000 clicks old.  It has traveled to three continents and been used in all sorts of weather without issue.  I just sent it to Leica before the warranty ended to have it checked out, and while the sensor was dirty, there were no corrosion issues.  I got it back in four weeks, clean and beautiful like the day it was new.