Now that this forum isn't linked to Leica....

[LUF Admin]

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Things are getting clearer:

 

now we find selling/buying messages in all categories of this website, more or less hidden. Could any conflicts arise due to allowing related postings only in one new sub forum?

It will be a special software, that is linked from the forum. It uses the same user database, so you stay logged in when going to the classifieds section. Sales ads in the normal forum will not be allowed.

how much will you charge and when? For each posting in the new sub forum or if the deal is done? How will you control the latter?

I'll charge postings as I can't control if a deal is done and at which price. The fee will be based on the category (cameras / lenses more that accessories).

Prices already mentioned lay between 0,5 and 5 Euro/Dollars. It'll be in this span...

shouldn't you allow sellings of Canon or Nikon equipment which is done to finance Leica equipment. Many people sold other cameras before buying the M8.

I'll start with Leica branded and Leica related gear. I'd like to keep the focus to Leica...

shouldn't you allow to offer different customer-to-customer services in the new sub forum? For example M8 profiles, repair service, coding services, printing services, camera and lens rental services etc. I think it would be a good idea to think about this and include a definitive list of allowed services into the buying/selling rules

Good idea - but one step after the other and: Always start with the first step

will the business exclusively be done between the buyer and seller or should you be involved to track what really happens in your forum?

Strictly between buyer and seller - I can't take any responsibility for deals between the US and Australia for example. The forum provides only the medium for exchanging the information and a way to get an impression of a seller's or buyer's reputation.

you should make clear right form the beginning if professional dealers will be allowed to trade in this forum and include your decision into the rules to avoid conflicts which could arise probably.

Professional sellers will be allowed at special conditions and with a special icon (or something simila) to separate professional offers.

you should take care not to sacrifice the family character of the forum by allowing professional dealers' postings. Many user will be very sensible with this, I think.

OK.

...but I feel a fee should only be charged if a deal is done, and I believe the registered users here would not abuse such a good system, and if any do, you of course, have the ultimate sanction available.

Sorry, but I have not the time to check all deals. And I don't want to dispute with anyone if a deal was closed or not. Keep it simple (like in the classifieds section of a newspaper): Pay per ad, depending on the section.

 

I also think that sellers should notify the forum when an item has been sold so that the item could be removed - perhaps to a categorized sold listing which could prove a valuable source of values etc.

Yepp. Will be included.

 

A 'wanted' section would also be very useful.

Yepp. Will be included.

 

Please start it soon !

OK.

 

Andreas

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[LUF Admin]

Please start it soon !

 

BTW: Anyone interested in becoming a beta tester? Send me a PM with your username...

 

First 10 applicants will get in.

 

Andreas

[rsolomon]

Andreas,

i hope you plan on some type of currency conversion....

 

otherwise self-centered americans like me wont understand the pricing. Aleast an easy to use conversion tool - this way we can bid, buy and sell in our own currencies.

 

thanks

[spylaw4]

Andreas,

i hope you plan on some type of currency conversion....

 

otherwise self-centered americans like me wont understand the pricing. Aleast an easy to use conversion tool - this way we can bid, buy and sell in our own currencies.

 

thanks

 

Should use Paypal - pay Andreas in Euros - Paypal will do the conversion - and those of us with verified acounts provide a (small) measure of additional security re address.

[LUF Admin]

i hope you plan on some type of currency conversion....

Product prices can be defined in US Dollar (Australian and Canadian Dollars too), British Pounds and Euro.

 

Should use Paypal - pay Andreas in Euros - Paypal will do the conversion - and those of us with verified acounts provide a (small) measure of additional security re address.

I'll use PayPal for fee payment - allows payment in most currencies and via different payment methods (PayPal account and credit cards for example).

 

Andreas

[brunom]

The only problem I've found with PayPal is that they have their own idea of of what current, currency rates should be - and they differ a fair amount from the norm. but I suppose there is no real alternative ?

 

All the rest sounds good !

 

By the way Andreas - what is a PM [probably a stupid question for me to ask but I just don't know] ?

 

Bruno

[brunom]

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Ok ! my brain's in gear now [ I hope ?] and I assume it's a 'private message'.

 

Bruno

[LUF Admin]

The only problem I've found with PayPal is that they have their own idea of of what current, currency rates should be - and they differ a fair amount from the norm. but I suppose there is no real alternative ?

 

All the rest sounds good !

 

By the way Andreas - what is a PM [probably a stupid question for me to ask but I just don't know] ?

 

Bruno

 

Sorry no real alternative to PayPal - there are some other payment services but no one is worldwide available and has so many accounts like PayPal.

 

Andreas

[dkCambridgeshire]

Professional sellers could be discouraged by only allowing sellers to list say 3 items weekly .. and requesting them to declare categorically that they are not dealers ... but no system is perfect and a few dealers would always 'creep in' .. occupational hazard of running a sales forum ... but we would soon get to know who they are ... and so would the moderators ... I belong to a watch collectors forum where dealers are soon given the 'unwelcome' messsage if they try it on ... and they soon 'get the messsage' and stop posting. And dealers tend to ask too high a price anyway!!

 

Other sales forums don't charge fees or commissions and seem to survive sensibly without them. I don't agree with a listing fee or commission .. especially as PAYPAL would benefit and they get ££$$zillions already from Ebay ... a Sales Forum would be interesting for all of us to browse even if we don't buy .. and I expect we would all be watching if say a Leica 800mm lens was offered.

 

Just as dealers should be discouraged from selling, so dealers should also be discouraged from buying .. just in case they see an opportunity to make a fast $ .

 

Keep it simple and please ... no commission charges or fees to complicate matters.

 

And please also allow WANTED ads ie WTB's ... and P/X's (part exchanges)

 

And have a non obligatory feedback section where buyers / sellers can give praise or 'non-praise' to each other ref their deals ... non oblig. because some buyers might wish to remain anonymous

 

Dunk

[andybarton]

But, one of the reasons for having a sales section in the first place is to generate revenue for Andreas.

 

If sales notices are free, an alternative source of income will be necessary.

[dkCambridgeshire]

If Andreas needs ££ then maybe levy just nominal annual subscrription ?? But wondering how other fora manage to offer sales sections without any levies or commissions?

 

Dunk

[stunsworth]

Dunk, I guess they're either low traffic sites, so there isn't much (if any) cost to the site owner, they request an annual membership fee to cover costs - Photo.net, or they have a generous site owner - the LUG.

 

Let's be frank, if this site costs Andreas more than he can afford himself then there has to be income generated somehow of it will close. I don't know what the costs are, but traffic here seems reasonably high. If you have a mandetory annual fee they many people won't bother - this doesn't seem to be the business model adopted by many sites. If you have an optional fee then only a minority of users will take that up and you run the risk of creating a two tier system and an 'us and them' attitude among certain of the members. A fee based sales system on the other hand means that the only people who will be paying will be those actually generating income via the sale of equipment.

[earleygallery]

I have no objection to a listing fee for a for sale ad - I'd rather that than a subscription fee for the site for the reasons Steve has mentioned.

 

As I've said before, if the ads were free - ignoring the fact that the site isn't being sponsored by Leica anymore - it would be full of ads and spam for all sorts of irrelevant stuff. This way it will limit the entries to 'serious' ads.

 

I can't understand why anyone would have an objection to paying a nominal fee for an ad - its an optional service and if you can use a free service elsewhere then do so.

[sdai]

Just some random thoughts after playing with the beta site ...

 

Duplicate listing of the same item on different sites should not be encouraged ... also, it's probably better to adopt a rating system for the items which is similar to that of KEH (LN. LN-. Exc+. Exc. ... Fair, Poor, etc) or B&H (0-10) and make the standard very clear on site.

 

A listing fee is quite reasonable IMO, that also ensures the items are listed by real persons.

[brunom]

Dunk, I guess they're either low traffic sites, so there isn't much (if any) cost to the site owner, they request an annual membership fee to cover costs - Photo.net, or they have a generous site owner - the LUG.

 

Let's be frank, if this site costs Andreas more than he can afford himself then there has to be income generated somehow of it will close. I don't know what the costs are, but traffic here seems reasonably high. If you have a mandetory annual fee they many people won't bother - this doesn't seem to be the business model adopted by many sites. If you have an optional fee then only a minority of users will take that up and you run the risk of creating a two tier system and an 'us and them' attitude among certain of the members. A fee based sales system on the other hand means that the only people who will be paying will be those actually generating income via the sale of equipment.

 

Steve

 

That's not quite true, as items NOT sold will still be generating income.

 

Bruno

[brunom]

Surely it's not beyond the bounds of reasonableness [AND TRUST] that we be left to pay [via pay pal ?] Andreas at the end of the ad period, say 1 Euro for an unsold item and say 5 Euros for something that gets sold?

 

Why would that be so difficult ?

 

Bruno

[robsteve]

It might be a good idea to get the system running quickly. A few days ago I realized how quickly the June 30th deadline was approaching for the 30% off lens offer for early M8 adopters. I have started selling rarely used items to raise the funds for my discounted WATE.

 

I may not be the only person thinking this way and the buy and sell forum may loose a few listings if it is not up and running soon.

 

BTW, I entered a sample listing and it was a quick and painless process. I think it took less than a few minutes. Far less complicated than doing an Ebay listing where there are so many questions/steps to making a listing.

[LUF Admin]

It might be a good idea to get the system running quickly. A few days ago I realized how quickly the June 30th deadline was approaching for the 30% off lens offer for early M8 adopters. I have started selling rarely used items to raise the funds for my discounted WATE.

 

I'm still bound to some restrictions by Leica for a limited time. When the move of the domain is finished also in Google's index it'll start. Until then - please have some patience and continue beta testing...

 

Surely it's not beyond the bounds of reasonableness [AND TRUST] that we be left to pay [via pay pal ?] Andreas at the end of the ad period, say 1 Euro for an unsold item and say 5 Euros for something that gets sold?

Why would that be so difficult ?

Technically: Difficult but not impossible.

But I won't do that - no way:

- I have no possibility to check if a deal was made or not

- I have no time to go through expired or closed ads and check if they were paid

- I trust in most of the member as persons but not in human nature (including me).

 

If you want to trust in people make rules easy and clear. If sellers have to decide if a deal was closed ("hm, sold only one of three" or "price was under my expectations" or "I knew this guy, would have sold without ad too") things are getting ouf of my hand.

 

So - payment by ad depending on section. That's easy to track and gives the seller a way to know in advance how much to pay.

 

Andreas

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[stumac]

Fee for lodgement of advertisment I feel is the only way to go, anything else would require an enormous amount of administration which clearly Andreas cannot do, I think he has done a remarkable job getting the forum to this stage and deserves accolades.

 

Regards, Stuart

[brunom]

Andreas

 

Of course I was thinking about it mainly from my perspective ! but I do understand the reasons why you are going to be doing it in the way you've decided upon.

 

Bruno.