jip Posted April 2, 2015 Share #1 Â Posted April 2, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I want a spotting scope or a good pair of binoculars! Â I'm living in a high apartment building now (the tallest residential building in the Netherlands actually) and I want to spy on people, and animals, and stuff! Â Doesn't have to be Leica I guess but that would be coolest. Â ADVICE is welcome Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Hi jip, Take a look here Spotting scope. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 2, 2015 Share #2  Posted April 2, 2015 You need an observation binocular i.e. any with a magnification of at least 12x but preferably greater i.e. at least 15x. Leica offer several lowish power observation binos but you need to try before you buy especially as you wear glasses (eye relief).  If within your budget, one of the very finest observation binoculars is the Docter Optic ASPECTUM 80/500 ED 40x80. I bought a secondhand example recently and it's the finest bino I have ever used - but it also requires a sturdy fork mount and tripod. Exit pupil is only 2mm but is surprisingly bright; excellent reviews available via Cloudy Nights forum and You Tube.  Others worth considering are the Canon image stabilised 15x and 18x magnification models - which do not need tripods and are thus grab and go - but best used with lithium AA batteries to ensure more than several hours continuous use. All Canon IS binos offer image brightness far greater than their relatively small exit pupils suggest. I use a Canon 15x IS bino regularly and the image is superb across the frame.  Another IS model worth considering is the Zeiss 20x60 - the IS is powered by permanent magnets and the bino is used by astronauts in the International Space Station. I know where there is secondhand example listed in the UK.  Another quality high mag. observation binocular worth considering is the Kowa High Lander which uses interchangeable eyepieces but it is not IS and requires a tripod and HD mount - I have used one and the image was superb and on par with the Aspectum - but the Aspectrum has a wider field of view .  One of the best medium power observation binos is the Fujinon 16x70 but it is not IS and will require a tripod and mount and the eye relief is not so good for anyone wearing glasses. However, the eyecups can be rolled back to improve eye relief - and provided users do not have astignmatism, when used without glasses the eyepieces can be focused individually to accommodate long or short sightedness.  And I have just read a good review of the latest Celestron 16x70 and 20x70 observation binoculars in this month's 'Astronomy Now' magazine. Also check out the APM observation bino offerings.  Unlike regular centre focus binoculars, most observation binos have separately focusing eyepieces and most are porro prism type rather than roof prism. Don't be put off by the fact they (e.g. Fujinon) use porro prisms - porro prisms are very efficient and much easier to collimate in the event that they require recollimation.  Whatever you decide to acquire you will need to budget for a very good mount (preferably a fork mount ) and tripod - unless you opt for an IS model.  It's impossible to handhold any 12x bino steady enough to appreciate the view - even though some users claim to be able to do so.  If you decide to acquire one of the few centre focus type observation binos and you are unfamiliar with how to set them up as regards diopter adjustment, you will need to read up about the correct procedure. And if you have not used an observation bino before you need to familiarise yourself with collimation assessment to ensure that whatever model you try has perfect collimation. This involves optimum adjustment of the interocular distance of the eyepieces (adjusted via the centre hinge or via the individual prisms movements) to ensure that one stereo / 3D perfectly circular image is visible. If you cannot adjust to obtain that perfect non-overlapping circular image then the instrument is out of collimation.  Most observation binos made in China are churned out by only one or two factories and are badge engineered with varying degrees of QA . Many look identical on the outside but the internals are a different story e.g. some have better coating and multicoating than others. And cheaper Chinese binos are known for their poor collimation.  Best to consider Japanese and German models with proven QA . All the Canon, Fujinon, Kowa, Zeiss and Docter models mentioned are of non-Chinese origin.  There are several methods of mounting observation binos but for medium aperture (up to e.g. 80mm objective diameter) one of the best and one which I use is the Berlebach binocular support whereby the bino is secured by a rubber strap to a roof shaped platform - the platform having a regular 3/8" female tripod thread in its base - thus enabling attachment to e.g. a large ball and socket head.  For any models with objective diameters of 100mm or greater, a fork mount is preferable.  The problem with nearly all regular pan and tilt heads e.g. Manfrotto and Gitzo, is that they do not permit observing at the zenith i.e. with the bino at 90º to the tripod as required for astro observing.  To get around this problem with medium power observation binos I use a Manfrotto horizontal tube attachment at 90º to the tripod - with a ball and socket head and a counterweight on the shorter length of the tube to aid stability.  However, if you are only observing towards the street from your high rise apartment, zenith observing will not be required.  Good luck and feel free to ask questions if any further queries.  dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted April 2, 2015 Share #3 Â Posted April 2, 2015 Several years ago I picked up a APO Televid 77 spotting scope with a 20-60 eyepiece. I use it on my Gitzo tripod with RRS head and RRS plate for the scope. It is a really nice rig. You can pick a 77 used for $900 to $1500. I guess it depends on your budget. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 2, 2015 Share #4  Posted April 2, 2015 Mounting observation binoculars; all photos taken with Leica X1.   Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Quantum 7.4 25x100 observation bino on heavy duty fork mount at March 19 BBC 2 Stargazing Live event. In the background is the Docter Optic 40x80 bino mounted on a HD EQ5 astro tripod. The Quantum 7.4 is a Chinese made observation bino purchased secondhand ... but required expensive service and recollimation before it was usable.    Fujinon 16x70 observation bino on medium fork mount and Manfrotto 058 tripod at March 19 BBC2 Stargazing Live event . The Berlebach roof shaped wooden binocular support is just visible - binoculars secured by rubber strap.    Docter Aspectum 40x80 bino at March 19 BBC2 Stargazing Live event … home made wooden mounting platform with Altair Astro Sabre Alt-Az mount    Quantum 25x100 observation bino in use on heavy duty fork mount at March 19 BBC2 Stargazing Live event    Fuji 16x70 and Nikon 10x70 binos showing Berlebach 'roof' shaped wooden bino mounts with ball and socket heads and Manfrotto horizontal column attachment … latter enables zenith viewing    As an alternative to observation binoculars, spotting 'scopes are fine and will usually enable greater magnification - but they will not enable a 3D stereo image.   Best to try both binos and 'scopes at a specialist dealer who has viewing facilities and make sure that whoever advises you knows what they are talking about. Avoid cheapo instruments and if your budget permits, consider quality optics from proven brands.   Best wishes  dunk Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Quantum 7.4 25x100 observation bino on heavy duty fork mount at March 19 BBC 2 Stargazing Live event. In the background is the Docter Optic 40x80 bino mounted on a HD EQ5 astro tripod. The Quantum 7.4 is a Chinese made observation bino purchased secondhand ... but required expensive service and recollimation before it was usable.    Fujinon 16x70 observation bino on medium fork mount and Manfrotto 058 tripod at March 19 BBC2 Stargazing Live event . The Berlebach roof shaped wooden binocular support is just visible - binoculars secured by rubber strap.    Docter Aspectum 40x80 bino at March 19 BBC2 Stargazing Live event … home made wooden mounting platform with Altair Astro Sabre Alt-Az mount    Quantum 25x100 observation bino in use on heavy duty fork mount at March 19 BBC2 Stargazing Live event    Fuji 16x70 and Nikon 10x70 binos showing Berlebach 'roof' shaped wooden bino mounts with ball and socket heads and Manfrotto horizontal column attachment … latter enables zenith viewing    As an alternative to observation binoculars, spotting 'scopes are fine and will usually enable greater magnification - but they will not enable a 3D stereo image.   Best to try both binos and 'scopes at a specialist dealer who has viewing facilities and make sure that whoever advises you knows what they are talking about. Avoid cheapo instruments and if your budget permits, consider quality optics from proven brands.   Best wishes  dunk ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/243101-spotting-scope/?do=findComment&comment=2791530'>More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 2, 2015 Share #5  Posted April 2, 2015 Another possible option to consider if you have a long focus Leica R lens, is a Leica Telescope Ocular To R accessory (code 14234) which converts any Leica R lens to a telescope. A 400mm R lens would convert to a 32x mag telescope but this can be doubled to 64x with a 2x extender.  One is listed on Ebay by Leica Shop Vienna (now owned by Leica Camera) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-14234-TO-R-/351360010988?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_16&hash=item51ceb04aec  dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted April 3, 2015 Share #6 Â Posted April 3, 2015 Dunk, would you agree that the 3D experience that binoculars provide is more enjoyable for relatively casual observation, or for scanning around and watching for one's own amusement , whereas spotting scopes, with their greater magnification and therefore limited coverage (in most cases) are probably better for serious identification use? Â It sounds to me as though the OP would be better concentrating on binoculars for the purposes stated, but I'm far from being an expert on the subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 3, 2015 Share #7  Posted April 3, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dunk, would you agree that the 3D experience that binoculars provide is more enjoyable for relatively casual observation, or for scanning around and watching for one's own amusement , whereas spotting scopes, with their greater magnification and therefore limited coverage (in most cases) are probably better for serious identification use?  It sounds to me as though the OP would be better concentrating on binoculars for the purposes stated, but I'm far from being an expert on the subject.   Peter, I have a Leica spotting 'scope but much prefer observation binoculars for their 3D image. I use several binoculars of various magnifications for astronomical observing and prefer them to astro telescopes for the type of wide field observing I enjoy. Astro society colleagues are amazed by the definition and FOV of my Docter Aspectem 40x80 binocular.  jip has not stated how high his apartment is but a low power bino is unlikely to be a good 'spyglass' … which is why he should consider visiting a specialist dealer to try some decent observation binoculars … and spotting 'scopes … at the anticipated distances.  Another option is to consider a low(ish) power terrestrial telescope or dual terrestrial/astro 'scope (as distinct from 'spotting 'scope) with interchangeable eyepieces and use it with a bino viewer accessory - thus enabling both eyes to observe with a pseudo stereo effect. Some astro observers use bino viewers on their 'scopes all the time - but others cannot use them because of their particular/personal vision characteristics.  Binocular observing for longish periods can be hard work if handholding thus best to consider the whole package i.e. include a mount and tripod - and one of the best binocular mount accessories is the Berlebach device - so much better and more versatile than typical 'L' brackets.  And anyone considering purchase of an observation binocular should not decide on any particular model until they've tried the Canon 15x and 18x mag. image stabilised instruments - they really do excel - but even they might not be powerful enough for jip's intended purpose.  However, choosing a suitable 'scope or binocular is a very personal decision and recommendations should only be used as a guide rather than for a definite choice. Our eyesights vary and some observers might never get on with binoculars.  Whatever instrument is chosen, the observer should study how to use them beforehand. It's not just a matter of putting a binocular to your eyes. The inter-ocular distance needs adjusting properly as does the diopter correction - and consideration should be given to the eye relief. Eye relief is often ignored but our eyes need to be placed at the optimal distance behind the eyepiece … and eyecups adjusted to suit same.  dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_parker Posted April 3, 2015 Share #8 Â Posted April 3, 2015 I've had occasion to try a couple of the Leica spotting scopes from time to time and they are stunning... Â I well remember viewing from a boat just off the German seaside town of Zingst and being able to identify the make of sunglasses that someone was wearing on the shoreline - notwithstanding the excellent information and advice already provided, if you try one it may prove to be one of those 'heart rather than head' purchases...:cool: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share #9  Posted April 4, 2015 Thanks for all the replies and I certainly didn't know there was 'so much to it' as there is. For now I'm broke anyway just because of moving and painting and buying furniture etc. also the BF has a taste for not the cheapest designer furniture... Haha  But the binos will come some time, there is plenty to see here!  Here's a pic from one of my windows.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/243101-spotting-scope/?do=findComment&comment=2792354'>More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 4, 2015 Share #10 Â Posted April 4, 2015 The view is superb and would definitely be suitable for a high mag observation bino or spotting 'scope. A low power bino i.e. less than 15x would not do the scene justice. Â And look forward to seeing some more photos - maybe try selling the photos to pay for a bino? Â dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 4, 2015 Share #11  Posted April 4, 2015 Another option to consider is a BINOSCOPE … enthusiasts build their own but there are some available 'off the shelf' … this book is worth reading:  Building and Using Binoscopes (The Patrick Moore Practical Astronomy Series)  A binoscope comprises two telescopes side by side - collimated to produce a binocular stereo image. Different to a 'binoviewer' used with only one 'scope - and which only gives a 'less bright' pseudo-stereo image  dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted April 4, 2015 Share #12  Posted April 4, 2015 Another possible option to consider if you have a long focus Leica R lens, is a Leica Telescope Ocular To R accessory (code 14234) which converts any Leica R lens to a telescope. A 400mm R lens would convert to a 32x mag telescope but this can be doubled to 64x with a 2x extender.  One is listed on Ebay by Leica Shop Vienna (now owned by Leica Camera) Leica 14234 to R | eBay  dunk   See Leica Pocket Book 8th Edition page 307 for specification  dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_parker Posted April 5, 2015 Share #13 Â Posted April 5, 2015 ..also I believe that there is an adapter which allows the D Lux 6 to fit to some telescopes and spotting scopes..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share #14 Â Posted April 5, 2015 Ooh making it even more fun haha, but is there enough light to work with decent shutter speeds? I've also heard there is one for the X1/2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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