Can Never Go Back to DSLR

[pico]

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[responding to Pico] You have a very malformed definition of "professional photographer", then. There are pros who have absolutely no need for autofocus.

 

FWIW, I was a pro decades before auto-focus existed. That was then. My view comes from today.

 

Also, I have only one AF today, and except for one, I use manual focus lenses on it.

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[fotografr]

Hey, folks, if I can do this wildlife photography with my M and a 50mm f 1.4 just a block from my home, surely you can do the same with wild lions, jackals, hippos and alligators on a safari in Africa.

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[KM-25]

but I can think of nothing more onerous than to work within the confines of commerce, be it weddings or advertising, or journalism.

 

How would you know since you are not a pro? Many of us have a blast at what we do because we are successful…enough to we where we actually call more shots than the enthusiast crowd would dare to think. The enthusiast works a job and dreams about the times he can go out and shoot what he wants, some of us just live their dream. Full stop.

 

As far as the RF love-fest goes, here is my take. Yes, my M3 with it’s one lens, the 50 lux asph is a great combo, could travel the world with just that and nail tons of great shots. But it is just a tool and does not hold a candle to other tools I use like my medium and large format gear in the areas in which I choose them for.

 

But last week the “RF experience” took a serious hit when I decided to leave it at home for a trip to Central America. Instead of my usual kit of M3/50, Xpan 45 & 90, I took my Nikon F3 and FM3A with a 28/2, 50/1.8 and 105/2.5. Lets just say I blew it out of the park with this set in every way. I shot Tmax 400 pushed to 800 for day and night and got wonderful shots, not unlike those I would have gotten with my M3 in terms of candids, street and portraits.

 

But what the Nikon SLR kit allowed me to do with aplomb that the M could never do was consistently and quickly frames scenes that had precise foreground / background to subject layering. From medium to close distances it is hard to do this with an M because you are not seeing what the lens sees.

 

Oh, about the M being more stealth…I don’t really agree for two reasons. One is the hang time it sometimes takes to make sure you have nailed the focus and then recompose at wider apertures makes people take notice where as I can pretty much pull off the same shot with a Nikon F body in a fraction of the time, manually focused that is.

 

The other thing is that the M has a distinct look that has turned far more heads in my midst than an SLR ever will, often getting camera enthusiasts in my face with tech headed questions when I am trying to concentrate or curious onlookers who want to know what kind of camera it is. For what it is worth, among thousands of others who shoot people in candid context, Salgado & Koudelka produced some amazing work with SLR's.

 

My favorite wildlife photographer uses lenses shorter than 200mm to get the best shots, telling a story about them instead of just being the usual "mug shot". In the case of the attached, one was with the M3/50 and the other was with a F3/105...sorry about the crappy repro, seem to be some tight limitations in the upload scheme.

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[HeinzX]

I use different systems - i.e. a M 240 and a 5 D III. I have more fun with the M 240 - one reason is, that it is much more less weight I have to carry with me (I am 66 years old), but for some pictures I need the DSLR and special lenses. It is possible to adapt some of them on my M 240 with a FotodioX adapter, but this does not make sense in every case. So I use the differnt systems according to the requirement with preference of the M 240 if possible. Just for fun photo of an example where a special Canon lens could be adapted and used - but it makes not much sense with this heavy lens of Canon (weight of the lens more than 1, 1 kgs - a 11mm - 24 mm zoom - a very new and excellent lens):

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[AlanG]

You can either fit the gear to your needs or your needs to your gear.

[KM-25]

I have more fun with the M 240 - one reason is, that it is much more less weight I have to carry with me.

 

Interesting, because my Nikon FM3A with a 50/1.4 weighs 8.5 oz less than my M3 with a 50/1.4 and is about the same size and with it's usual partner of a 50mm 1.8 is over 3/4 of a pound less. It depends on how you set your gear up too, my D750 weighs only 2.4 oz more than your M240, stick a "Leica" brand autofocus 11-24 on that M and it will weigh a ton...

[AlanG]

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Canon 6D only weighs 100 grams more than an M without an EVF. With rebate it sells for $1299. And the Sony A7 is lighter and smaller plus the price is reduced.

 

All cameras have compromises. Leica Ms are in a unique category for several reasons that defy typical comparisons.

 

I think now and going forward the sweet spot for balancing size, weight, price, performance, quality and versatility is APS and M4/3 mirrorless. E.g. when I can buy a Sony A 6000 with kit zoom for $700 I'm not sure why the A7II would be that much more useful at a cost of $2000, especially considering the need for larger heavier glass.

[jaapv]

Yes, but when one prefers the M as one's primary system, it is a hassle to carry a second system for different purposes, lenses, batteries, chargers and all.

That is the liberation the M240 provides: I can leave my DSLR at home.

 

Interesting, because my Nikon FM3A with a 50/1.4 weighs 8.5 oz less than my M3 with a 50/1.4 and is about the same size and with it's usual partner of a 50mm 1.8 is over 3/4 of a pound less. It depends on how you set your gear up too, my D750 weighs only 2.4 oz more than your M240, stick a "Leica" brand autofocus 11-24 on that M and it will weigh a ton...

[KM-25]

Yes, but when one prefers the M as one's primary system, it is a hassle to carry a second system for different purposes, lenses, batteries, chargers and all.

That is the liberation the M240 provides: I can leave my DSLR at home.

 

Lol....cool story, next time I need my teeth cleaned I'll just have my Audi dealership do it while they service my car....

[AlanG]

Yes, but when one prefers the M as one's primary system, it is a hassle to carry a second system for different purposes, lenses, batteries, chargers and all.

That is the liberation the M240 provides: I can leave my DSLR at home.

 

Yes but what about the Sony A7 series and A6000? (FWIW I don't own either one.) That system can use an incredible variety of lenses via adapters.

 

And the adapters themselves are somewhat ingenious. Besides the ones that can electronically control EF lenses, there is one that has a variable neutral density filter - ideal for shooting video in bright light at large apertures, or simply to vary the exposure without changing depth of field. There are tilting adapters and tilt shift adapters. And there are the Speed Boosters for the APS system that decreases the magnification of the lens and increases the maximum f stop.

 

So in some ways, adapting a lens is better than using a lens made for the camera. E.g. with an APS camera, Speed Booster and regular EF adapter, the 24mm TSE can be used at two fields of view - equivalent to 24mm and 36mm. The 17mm TSE can be used at 17mm and 25.5mm. Yes this is similar to using a tele-extender but with light gain instead of light loss. And you can use the APS A6000 to back up the full frame A7 or even as a backup to a full frame Canon or other body. If they add IBIS to an A6000 replacement, something their A7II already has, that would be something.

 

As I said, Leica Ms are in their own category and comparing features doesn't always register with some users. But Sony and Metabones are clearly onto something unique as far as I can see.

[zlatkob]

... E.g. when I can buy a Sony A 6000 with kit zoom for $700 I'm not sure why the A7II would be that much more useful at a cost of $2000, especially considering the need for larger heavier glass.

 

I checked out the A6000 briefly at a store and felt that the viewfinder was rather low res, and the word "processing" would appear on screen for a seemingly long time after each shot. I don't know whether that was a bad setting or something. My quick impression was that it would give a poor shooting experience, even if the image quality, autofocus, etc. were very good.

[wildlightphoto]

However in the real world, there is only one beast to capture the wildlife and thats the SLR/DSLR and the BIG Lenses with AF and IS, simply no comromise.

 

There are as many ways to photograph wildlife as there are to photograph people. My wildlife camera is the R8/DMR and 280mm f/4 APO-Telyt R.

 

Photographs of North American birds and mammals by Douglas Herr

 

No AF or IS.

[fotografr]

It always astounds me how people on this forum try to make the case that one camera system is better than another. This usually takes the form of Nikon or Canon or Sony or Fuji is better in some way than the M system. The absolute best camera for any photographer is the one he or she is most comfortable using. Simple as that. No camera will ever be made that will be perfect for every user.

[bocaburger]

Leica Ms are in a unique category for several reasons

 

Used to be for me it was because of the rangefinder and the size. But now that digital has bloated the M a bit, and other very high quality cameras (many of which can even use Leica M lenses without much issue) have come on the market much smaller and lighter, the only reason remaining for me is the opto-mechanical rangefinder.

[bocaburger]

There are as many ways to photograph wildlife as there are to photograph people. My wildlife camera is the R8/DMR and 280mm f/4 APO-Telyt R.

 

Photographs of North American birds and mammals by Douglas Herr

 

No AF or IS.

 

Just a curious hypothetical, let's say your DMR died tomorrow and you couldn't find another working example (hopefully neither is likely!). What would be your prefered body option be going forward? I'm assuming you would want to continue using that lens.

[KM-25]

This usually takes the form of Nikon or Canon or Sony or Fuji is better in some way than the M system.

 

Actually, the premise of this thread was kind of the opposite..

 

That the OP had to try real hard to make his 240 work in a discipline that other cameras systems are far better at and now with loads of practice he calls out his DSLR as being inferior. I have known plenty of shooters over the years who in addition to other gear, had a RF camera in tow because of how excellent it is for what said user would apply it to. That is kind of the way I like to work too, it's super easy to add the M3 to the bag ( when my only lens is not in the shop for the 2nd time in 6 months like now ) and pull it out when needed.

 

But some of those who decided that the Leica M system is their personal lord and savior don't like or want to hear this, would swear up and down I don't even own one...along with an Xpan and Mamiya 6 for that matter.

 

Out of some 13 cameras and 37 lenses within 6 systems, I find my Leica to actually be one of the most enjoyable cameras to use despite it being one of the least functional in the grand scheme of things.

I think any really serious photographer who enjoys travel or documentary photography should give Leica a shot, but not everyone needs to build a big system of them and try to shoehorn them into every conceivable genre. The latter tells me that it becomes far less about making a great photograph and instead, centers on being in love with the gear it self, not what it can do.

[NB23]

... give Leica a shot, but not everyone needs to build a big system of them and try to shoehorn them into every conceivable genre. The latter tells me that it becomes far less about making a great photograph and instead, centers on being in love with the gear it self, not what it can do.

 

Yes, exactly. So true.

 

Too many folks auto-deepthroat the leica thang at the expense of photography.

[wildlightphoto]

Just a curious hypothetical, let's say your DMR died tomorrow and you couldn't find another working example (hopefully neither is likely!). What would be your prefered body option be going forward? I'm assuming you would want to continue using that lens.

 

I'd use the backup DMR

 

There are several options I'd try. Among the features of the DMR I value are the color gradation and the robustness of the files, able to withstand significant abuse before falling apart.

 

The Sony A7II is interesting because of its sensor stabilization, OTOH some reviewers have remarked on the less-robust files which can't take a lot of abuse. I'll be watching Sony to see if the expected A9 improves on this and to see if the viewfinder is suitable.

 

The Canon 5Ds is also interesting because it's rumored to be optimized more for low-ISO color discrimination than for high-ISO noise. Testing once the camera becomes available will clarify this.

 

If it didn't require such big lenses for an equivalent field of view an S camera (most likely a used S2) would be at the top of my short list. The files take a lot of abuse without whimpering, the color discrimination is excellent, the viewfinder is refreshingly usable, and there is a third-party adapter available to use longer R lenses. As I understand it the maximum focus distance for the 280/4 on an S is about 40', which would suit me fine. I'd also add a Zeiss 350mm f/4 Tele-Apotessar (for Contax 645) with 1.4x mutar and the Leica adapter.

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[AlanG]

I checked out the A6000 briefly at a store and felt that the viewfinder was rather low res, and the word "processing" would appear on screen for a seemingly long time after each shot. I don't know whether that was a bad setting or something. My quick impression was that it would give a poor shooting experience, even if the image quality, autofocus, etc. were very good.

 

Well something was wrong because the A6000 is very fast. (Up to 11 fps.) I have the Nex 6 and it shoots as fast as I can press the button with no waiting at all until buffer is full. You do want to have automatic image review turned off of course. Otherwise it will be trying to display the image right after you shoot it. That is what you were experiencing.

 

The A6000 does not have as high res a viewfinder as the A7 and Nex 6 nor does it have the electronic level. I'm waiting to see if Sony comes out with more of a "pro" APS mirrorless. If Leica could make a "T" with built in EVF, fast hybrid AF, class leading electronics, and get Metabones and others to make all of those adapters for it, they'd really have something that is versatile. (Can't say if there is room for an M to T mount Speed Booster, or if that is even possible optically.)

[fotografr]

Out of some 13 cameras and 37 lenses within 6 systems, I find my Leica to actually be one of the most enjoyable cameras to use despite it being one of the least functional in the grand scheme of things.

 

I agree with the first part of that sentence, about Leica being the most enjoyable to use. But I still think functionality is determined by what one is comfortable using and the type of photography one wants to do. I started shooting professionally in 1978 and put together a complete Nikon system. In 1982 I bought two M3s, a 35, 50 and 90 primarily for pleasure shooting. I very quickly came to prefer the rangefinder system, loved the image quality of Leica glass, and became increasingly serious about M photography. By 1990 I had two M6s and a half dozen M lenses and was using them for work more than my Nikons. I later added two MPs and an M7. I kept the Nikon system for occasional sports and performing arts assignments which required long lenses (300mm to 600mm).

 

I eventually switched my Nikon system to Canon, but still maintained a full M system. By the time the M8 came out, I was using Leicas for more than 90% of my professional work, which was mostly environmental portraiture for magazine clients. I gradually phased out sports shooting and a couple of years ago got rid of all my DSLR equipment. I now shoot my M system exclusively for professional work and my pleasure shooting is done with the DL 109 and VL 114. I feel absolutely no need for a DSLR and no need for autofocus and do not perceive any lack of functionality, for my work, by using the M system. It does everything I need it to do.

 

I know I'm just one example, but I think there are more of us out there than people realize.