IWC Doppel Posted March 4, 2015 Share #181 Posted March 4, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Do we get to find out what the verdict is and what was what. I am curious Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Hi IWC Doppel, Take a look here CCD vs CMOS: Can you tell which is which?{merged}. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Manoleica Posted March 4, 2015 Share #182 Posted March 4, 2015 Verdict is Guilty, 15years with P&S Lomo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliveruss Posted March 4, 2015 Share #183 Posted March 4, 2015 I can not tell much difference between these images. Perhaps there is a bit more shadow noise if pixel peeping, but nothing that would make me choose one over the other, especially at this size. The sensors read their color through the filters over the pixels. I doubt that different color material was used in the different sensors. The sensor itself is color blind. Perhaps the profiles used with the sensors are slightly different, but nothing that can't be changed by a slight adjustment of the file. So, either sensor will make excellent images. The differences of having live viewing is important for some. I prefer the CCD because I seldom turn on the display and have much better tools if I want to make a video (like a cheap Canon camera). A CCD camera with two or three good lenses is hard to beat. Film instead of a sensor would show a difference ... much cheaper, better in many ways and different films give a noticeably different look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliveruss Posted March 4, 2015 Share #184 Posted March 4, 2015 either sensor will make excellent images. The weakest part of the process is behind the sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 4, 2015 Share #185 Posted March 4, 2015 This is the way I'm starting to look at it too. Any digital camera is like ONE film stock. One that can be pushed around a bit to look like different things, but still with its own strengths and weaknesses. I shot a test once where I took the same photograph with a few different films, some slide, some negative, on 4x5. I scanned them and tried to make them look similar. Tedious work. If you want a completely different look, change film stocks, or digital cameras. Or if you are so inclined, waste hours in post-production to end up with a middle-of-the-road compromise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 5, 2015 Share #186 Posted March 5, 2015 The filters are different makes, it is rather unlikely they use the same dyes. I can not tell much difference between these images. Perhaps there is a bit more shadow noise if pixel peeping, but nothing that would make me choose one over the other, especially at this size.The sensors read their color through the filters over the pixels. I doubt that different color material was used in the different sensors. The sensor itself is color blind. Perhaps the profiles used with the sensors are slightly different, but nothing that can't be changed by a slight adjustment of the file. So, either sensor will make excellent images. The differences of having live viewing is important for some. I prefer the CCD because I seldom turn on the display and have much better tools if I want to make a video (like a cheap Canon camera). A CCD camera with two or three good lenses is hard to beat. Film instead of a sensor would show a difference ... much cheaper, better in many ways and different films give a noticeably different look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted March 5, 2015 Share #187 Posted March 5, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Do we get to find out what the verdict is and what was what. I am curious Yes, it would be interesting to have this revelation before Armageddon... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliveruss Posted March 5, 2015 Share #188 Posted March 5, 2015 The filters are different makes, it is rather unlikely they use the same dyes. Do you mean that the red goop in the European Cmos filters is different from the goop in Kodak CCD filters? Same for blue and green? It is likely that it all comes from the same source. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 5, 2015 Share #189 Posted March 5, 2015 That is exactly what I mean. the transmission characteristic is certainly not the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 5, 2015 Share #190 Posted March 5, 2015 This is the way I'm starting to look at it too. Any digital camera is like ONE film stock. One that can be pushed around a bit to look like different things, but still with its own strengths and weaknesses. I shot a test once where I took the same photograph with a few different films, some slide, some negative, on 4x5. I scanned them and tried to make them look similar. Tedious work. If you want a completely different look, change film stocks, or digital cameras. Or if you are so inclined, waste hours in post-production to end up with a middle-of-the-road compromise. I disagree that having a digital camera is like one film stock. I can get virtually any look I want from digital. DXO for instance can almost instantly simulate virtually any film and can make one digital camera emulate another dugital camera too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 5, 2015 Share #191 Posted March 5, 2015 I disagree that having a digital camera is like one film stock. I can get virtually any look I want from digital. DXO for instance can almost instantly simulate virtually any film and can make one digital camera emulate another dugital camera too. I agree, Alan, but I suspect you underestimate your post-processing talent. It is still (and inevitably) difficult for many of us to be so fluent. Not that it matters for most. Color is the very most difficult thing to master. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 5, 2015 Share #192 Posted March 5, 2015 I'll have to disagree. I have all those plug ins. DXO can change the color and crush your shadows more than what you start out with, it can't add any tonality or highlight separation. There have been many side by side tests between different plug ins and the actual film stocks. As I said, when you match two digital cameras to look the same, you have to do it by dumming each of the respective files down to match the weaker attributes of the two. You have to add grain to one that the other has, you have to crush shadows to what the other looks like, you have to clip highlights to match the weaker one etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 6, 2015 Share #193 Posted March 6, 2015 Disagree all you want. Various opinions make the world interesting. I have decades of experience with film... including being a custom color printer. I know I have more control and more possibilities with digital than with film... whether scanned or printed. What you know you can or cannot do with either is based on different criteria or knowledge. Yes Pico, color is very difficult to master and after 45 years at it, I'I'm almost there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 6, 2015 Share #194 Posted March 6, 2015 I have more control and more possibilities with digital than with film... whether scanned or printed. I agree that I have more possibilities with digital than with film, but what I cannot recreate is what I get when I overexpose skin tones by about two stops with Fuji NPH or Kodak Portra in natural light. Show me that look from your M9 or M240, and then please let me know how you do it, because I can't replicate it. And mind you, I shoot a lot of digital, for the convenience of it and because I have to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted March 6, 2015 Share #195 Posted March 6, 2015 Part 3 wrap up, reveal and conclusion is in the works. Should be up early next week It is late "next week" now, and now I have sky high expectations for Part 3 ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted March 6, 2015 Share #196 Posted March 6, 2015 What on earth would Part 3 add ? Most already have opinions, some have voted on small jpg's and I'm losing interest tbh I can and have flicked through untortured M240 images and the same for M9 on Huffs site for example and comfortable with my views. I have used an M240 and compared files. If the M240 was not yet released maybe but part 3 on a two year old camera compared to a 6 year old ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted March 6, 2015 Share #197 Posted March 6, 2015 What on earth would Part 3 add ? Why, it will be a revelation ! [what's the noise of adrenaline building up ?] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pibitller Posted March 6, 2015 Share #198 Posted March 6, 2015 I believe that the near future will bring CMOS with electronic shutter, completely silent snapshot, not sequential as CCD, and better results Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted March 6, 2015 Share #199 Posted March 6, 2015 If the M240 was not yet released maybe but part 3 on a two year old camera compared to a 6 year old ? That sums it up really nice and made me laugh, thanks! Still, I love my 6 year old S2! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 6, 2015 Share #200 Posted March 6, 2015 I agree that I have more possibilities with digital than with film, but what I cannot recreate is what I get when I overexpose skin tones by about two stops with Fuji NPH or Kodak Portra in natural light. Show me that look from your M9 or M240, and then please let me know how you do it, because I can't replicate it. And mind you, I shoot a lot of digital, for the convenience of it and because I have to. Without seeing some examples, I can't say if this look can be achieved with digital.But negative film does handle over exposure differently as it builds density up to DMax. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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