pgk Posted February 13, 2015 Share #81 Posted February 13, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dan Margulis: " A professional photographer who is not proficient in Photoshop will not remain a professional photographer for long" Discuss Nothing to discuss. In the very vast majority of cases this is accurate. There will be exceptions - personally I don't actually know of any though, and of those I know those who are genuinely succesful, ALL are proficient in post processing of digital images.I repeat ALL! The key word is professional here though - I do know amateurs who still shoot film (well one actually, and he produces some exquisite images). But I know of nobody shooting digital who cannot post process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Hi pgk, Take a look here Prints 60 x 40 cm: Which Leica does the best job?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
BerndReini Posted February 13, 2015 Share #82 Posted February 13, 2015 Well, if we want to bring this full circle then, the OP should definitely dive into digital because with even fewer exceptions, no pro shoots film exclusively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 13, 2015 Share #83 Posted February 13, 2015 Well, if we want to bring this full circle then, the OP should definitely dive into digital because with even fewer exceptions, no pro shoots film exclusively. See post 40! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted February 14, 2015 Share #84 Posted February 14, 2015 See post 40! Remote location, previous knowledge of Photoshop, best for large prints: I would say the MM is a no-brainer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 14, 2015 Share #85 Posted February 14, 2015 Dan Margulis: " A professional photographer who is not proficient in Photoshop will not remain a professional photographer for long" Discuss Dan sells books. History is full of successful pro and 'fine art' photographers, some quite notable, who never did their own processing. And those who do their own have always had the choice of many workflow options…from simple to complex. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 14, 2015 Share #86 Posted February 14, 2015 History is full of successful pro and 'fine art' photographers, some quite notable, who never did their own processing. But the VAST majority did and still do. You are identifying a very small minority within the profession. There always will be exceptions, which is fine, as long as it is understood that that is what they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 14, 2015 Share #87 Posted February 14, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Using a professional rather exempts one from D.M.'s statement I should think. I think he meant to stress the importance of good processing to get a good result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BjarniM Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share #88 Posted February 14, 2015 Thanks for all your replies and input - it's been helpful. As i do understand from your input, all the newer Leica M-digital models could do the job satisfying enough for me. I will think about pros and cons and probably make my decision in two-three weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted February 14, 2015 Share #89 Posted February 14, 2015 Hi BjarniM, don't worry about what camera you get/use. It will be good enough. Mr Leica, Mr Nikon and Mrs Canon, do not make bad cameras. Nobody, except yourself will look at the published book and rave over the Dynamic Range, the grain (or noise) structure. People will look at the book and just at look at the pictures. All you need to worry about are the Light and Emotions in your subjects’ faces. As for light, here are two great, great places to start: https://www.youtube.com/user/mikeyorange Strobist Emotions, well when you figure that one out let, me know how!!! I have been 30 years trying to nail that one. A good starting point is to talk to your subject. Invest time with your subject, if you can. Right that is the artistic part done. Now for the practicals. If the camera fails do you have a backup? Do you have lenses, lights, reflectors, flags (to block light), scrims (to diffuse light)? Are the 100 people already picked out? Where are you going to shoot? Do you need power at the locations? Is it weather dependent? Do you have a fall back plan? How long have you got for the project? How long have you got with each person? Are your subjects going to be in the same set up for each portrait? If not, what will you have 100 people be doing that will be different from each other? Do you need props? How do the props get to the location and how are they returned? Do you need transport? Will it be just you, or will there be a group travelling with you? Do you need permission for photography in any location? Do you need insurance, for yourself, your camera or third partys? How are you going to keep the images safe after you shoot them and before they are processed? This is for digital or film. Do you have a concept for the whole shoot? Forget about which camera is best and look at how to get the photographs. By the way, here is Ben Lowry who does conflict photography with an iPhone: http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/02/ben-lowy-virtually-unfiltered/?_r=0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 14, 2015 Share #90 Posted February 14, 2015 I think he meant to stress the importance of good processing to get a good result. You failed to read the second part of my statement, which referenced many workflow options, currently of which Photoshop is only one. Lots of PP workflows can and do produce good work…despite your own aversion to LR for much of it. If Dan had generalized to good PP, instead of mastery of PS, I would have agreed. In fact, I already said it better in this early post. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted February 14, 2015 Share #91 Posted February 14, 2015 While learning the basics may seem, well, 'basic', if you are a really experienced darkroom user it will take a lot more than a quick play with exposure, contrast and dodge/burn in LR/PS to come close to the quality of your darkroom silver prints IMO. Not only must you get a real feel for tones on screen (which does take time), but this has to be translated into print. Either you print yourself at home (time, experimentation etc) or set yourself up with a remote service and profile your workflow so you get the results you expect (again, it takes time and tweaking)... or you get someone else who knows that they are doing to do the printing and work with your file until a great print emerges. The latter is a quicker 0-100, but no cheaper than getting a lab to make you a silver handprint. I am sure there are those who disagree, but for people who have no experience with computer image processing, I think it may be underselling the challenges to suggest it will be quick and easy. Silver Efex is fine - great even - but again, superb files that will print nicely is another matter altogether. If the OP knows someone who is good with digital processing, some one-on-one tutorials and help setting up a workflow will make a HUGE difference to how quickly super prints reliably emerge at the far end. Just my 2 Cents! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 14, 2015 Share #92 Posted February 14, 2015 I agree about the learning curve…film and digital... but the most important part is having a good eye and judgment to start. Learning, for instance, how to dodge and burn is easy compared to recognizing if and when, and to what degree, it's needed. Some people never get that part. But the same can be said about using a camera. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted February 15, 2015 Share #93 Posted February 15, 2015 A lot of people seem to be getting hung up about Photoshop over the image. If thats what you are into then that is great and here is a great website for Photoshop 'how to': The Best FREE Photoshop Tutorials I use Phlearn a LOT. The presenter, Aaron, has a great way of making Photoshop easy. You can also fine his tutorials on YouTube. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailronin Posted February 15, 2015 Share #94 Posted February 15, 2015 I will swim against the current here and suggest the OP get a good used M8.2 or M 9, either available for much less than an MM (he could buy two to have a back-up for the price of an MM, not a trivial concern in a remote location) Additionally in post processing with a simple (LR, Elements or Aperture) with Silver Efx plugin there is the possibility of application of "filters" to virtually replicate common B&W filters used with film. This allows more flexibility than an MM where the scene must be shot with filter initially. These programs have a much lower learning curve than PS and produce wonderful results. Perhaps not up to Ansel Adams standards but virtually all of the B&W section of my Smugmug website is Aperture and SilverEfx. Just my 2cents Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted February 15, 2015 Share #95 Posted February 15, 2015 I agree that a used M8 or M9 would give good results, but if you want "best results for large prints" then the MM is hard to beat. And shooting true black and white has more advantages than disadvantages for someone who comes from a black and white film background. I have stated this many times in the past: by adjusting different colors in LR when converting to black and white, all you do is push levels around and increase grain and artifacts. Look closely at the results, and you see how it degrades the image. When you use a color filter on the MM, you are compensating for this by adding exposure during capture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted February 16, 2015 Share #96 Posted February 16, 2015 But the MM cannot produce B&W prints like the M8... not even close. Which you prefer is of course a matter of taste. I have done them both and for me it's quite obvious.The M9 also is not up to par vs M8. Must admit though that on the web the MM files are very appealing but lack that 'bite' in print on similar paper and ink combinations. Each to their own and just my view Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSR Posted February 17, 2015 Share #97 Posted February 17, 2015 But the MM cannot produce B&W prints like the M8... not even close.Which you prefer is of course a matter of taste. I have done them both and for me it's quite obvious.The M9 also is not up to par vs M8. Must admit though that on the web the MM files are very appealing but lack that 'bite' in print on similar paper and ink combinations. Each to their own and just my view Andy Tell me there's a typo in there somewhere please... M8 better than MM for B&W? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 17, 2015 Share #98 Posted February 17, 2015 It is true that the output of MM and M8 are different. The puzzling thing is the preference for the lesser quality. I suspect the postprocessing workflow has not been adapted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted February 17, 2015 Share #99 Posted February 17, 2015 But the MM cannot produce B&W prints like the M8... not even close. There's a grain of truth in this (though not much more). As with all these comparisons (most of which conclude with the affirmation of an existing preference based on what that person already owns or uses) the real distinction between good photographs and not so good ones (and all the associated differences in tonality, depth, etc.) results from differences between good light and less good light. I'll take interesting light and average photographic equipment any day over less interesting light and 'better' equipment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 17, 2015 Share #100 Posted February 17, 2015 True. And it is also true that MM files look flatter out of camera and need a bit of processing to get the best results, whereas the OOC JPGs of the M8 are pretty good in B&W. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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