likealot Posted July 2, 2015 Share #81 Posted July 2, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica warranty is worldwide. The only think you loose by not buying from a UK dealer is the 1 year passport. Rgds The 1 year passport is not a problem for me because I have accidental damage on my contents insurance. The only thing that bothers me is the fact that neither SLR Hut nor Expedite are on Leica's approved retailer list (unless I am looking in the wrong place). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Hi likealot, Take a look here Is Leica discontinuing the X Vario?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 3, 2015 Share #82 Posted July 3, 2015 Which does not make much difference, as you can use CS at the factory. Grey imports only worry local distributors.You will be missing the advantage of service by a good dealer though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likealot Posted July 3, 2015 Share #83 Posted July 3, 2015 Which does not make much difference, as you can use CS at the factory. Grey imports only worry local distributors.You will be missing the advantage of service by a good dealer though. What would that service include? Is it something like advice or is it more linked to repairs? The other thing that puzzles me is why the two above mentioned shops ( I believe they are based in Hong Kong) are not in Leica's list of approved retailers? Is Leica not very efficient at upgrading the retailer list? Is there a UK helpline that I could call to check if the shops are approved by them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 3, 2015 Share #84 Posted July 3, 2015 What would that service include? Is it something like advice or is it more linked to repairs? The other thing that puzzles me is why the two above mentioned shops ( I believe they are based in Hong Kong) are not in Leica's list of approved retailers? Is Leica not very efficient at upgrading the retailer list? Is there a UK helpline that I could call to check if the shops are approved by them? Buy from grey importers at your peril. There is no such thing as a free lunch. There are other Leica grey importers in the UK including one quite infamous ref the problems caused to buyers including selling 'used' as 'new' i.e. allegedly new cameras with high actuation counts. If you ever wish to sell or PX a grey import some dealers will not touch them … they ask you where the camera/lens was purchased and if there is any doubt that import duty or VAT may not have been paid they refuse to buy or PX the item(s). Leica Camera AG only supply approved UK dealers with officially imported stock ... and all those official dealers list and sell their Leica wares at approx. the same prices ... with the exception of some dealer specific special offers e.g. the X Vario. If you wish to buy a budget price Leica check the official dealers' used camera stocks and take advantage of those dealers' used equipment guarantees / warranties. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likealot Posted July 3, 2015 Share #85 Posted July 3, 2015 Buy from grey importers at your peril. There is no such thing as a free lunch. dunk That is what I am trying to establish, whether these webshops are indeed grey importers or not. They sell the xvario for £1k - £1.1k which is not far from the £1.3k that some UK shops were selling the camera for. If the warranty is worldwide then would Leica honour such warranty despite of what country I am buying from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 3, 2015 Share #86 Posted July 3, 2015 You have to be aware that a grey importer could sell you an old camera as 'new' when in fact it could be already registered and over 2 years old and out of warranty - in which case Leica would not honour the warranty … And even if they did honour it, unlikely any British dealer would assist you in getting it back to Germany for repair. Not sure what Leica Mayfair's reaction might be if you took a grey import to them for repair. And you'd have to accept whatever guarantee or warranty the grey importer gave you … it might be their own warranty rather than Leica's in which case would have to go back to HK. If the prices are close it's worth paying the premium to obtain a fully warranted official import complete with passport. I've experienced new Leica cameras failing and my dealer and Leica Germany did their very best to remedy the problems - even supplying two brand new replacement cameras under the passport scheme when the camera was damaged accidentally by a third party - you would not get a Leica UK Passport with a grey import. The webshops you mentioned are definitely grey importers. You might have accidental damage cover on your home insurance policy but in the event of a claim all such policies have an excess to be paid by the insured and if it's something valued at over £1000 it might need to be declared as such and probably would not be covered outside the house unless declared and insured separately under 'personal possessions all risks'. Don't assume that all personal possessions are included in contents insurance cover and are automatically covered outside the home for accidental damage - they are not. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likealot Posted July 4, 2015 Share #87 Posted July 4, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) If the prices are close it's worth paying the premium to obtain a fully warranted official import complete with passport. If the prices are close it's worth paying the premium to obtain a fully warranted official import complete with passport. Don't get me wrong. I would gladly pay the extra £200-£300 premium in a UK shop for piece of mind. However i am finding it difficult to find many UK shops that sell at a decent price. The Leica website is apparently not very efficient at updating the list of retailers thus making it difficult to recognise which retailer is genuine and which not? For example there is a retailer called Red Dot Cameras that claims to be a premier plus dealer however they are not listed on the Leica website list?! I havent seen a thread on this forum to act as a database of official retailers either. Is this allowed? Would I be able to start one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 4, 2015 Share #88 Posted July 4, 2015 This is a worldwide forum and it's not necessarily in the business of making a list or database of British Leica Premier Dealers or any other country's Premier Leica Dealers or officially approved Leica dealers. Red Dot Cameras is definitely a Leica Premier Dealer. There is not much point in you making a list because any list might be out of date within 12 months; most UK Leica enthusiasts are aware of which sellers are Leica Premier Dealers. If in doubt, phone the dealer and ask them if they supply genuine Leica imports with UK passport as distinct from grey imports. The dealers' websites probably give this information. This forum has rules about advertising so might not approve of members stating which Leica dealers have 'official' Leica approved special offers for the X Vario. Suffice to mention that the X Vario is subject to good discount / special offer by certain official UK Leica dealers … but not all of them. If in doubt as to which are and which are not official Leica dealers you should shop around and ask them - but their websites will probably tell you - Red Dot's website definitely does in their 'About us' section. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 4, 2015 Share #89 Posted July 4, 2015 Buy from grey importers at your peril. There is no such thing as a free lunch. There are other Leica grey importers in the UK including one quite infamous ref the problems caused to buyers including selling 'used' as 'new' i.e. allegedly new cameras with high actuation counts. If you ever wish to sell or PX a grey import some dealers will not touch them … they ask you where the camera/lens was purchased and if there is any doubt that import duty or VAT may not have been paid they refuse to buy or PX the item(s). Leica Camera AG only supply approved UK dealers with officially imported stock ... and all those official dealers list and sell their Leica wares at approx. the same prices ... with the exception of some dealer specific special offers e.g. the X Vario. If you wish to buy a budget price Leica check the official dealers' used camera stocks and take advantage of those dealers' used equipment guarantees / warranties. dunk When selling Leica stuff over forty years, usually through reputed (UK) dealers, nobody has ever asked about provenance. Nor has it ever happened that anybody ever inquired about VAT. I will not be advocating grey imports, on the contrary, I think one should support a trusted dealer, but there is no need to spread FUD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted July 4, 2015 Share #90 Posted July 4, 2015 The Leica website is apparently not very efficient at updating the list of retailers thus making it difficult to recognise which retailer is genuine and which not? For example there is a retailer called Red Dot Cameras that claims to be a premier plus dealer however they are not listed on the Leica website list?! You are mistaken. Red Dot Cameras are listed as a Premier Plus Dealer on the Leica web site. See the Dealer Locator at http://uk.leica-camera.com/Stores-Dealers/Leica-dealer-locator Here is a screen grab of their entry on the Leica site: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I have bought several cameras from Red Dot over the years and recommend them highly. Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I have bought several cameras from Red Dot over the years and recommend them highly. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/236646-is-leica-discontinuing-the-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2847268'>More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 4, 2015 Share #91 Posted July 4, 2015 When selling Leica stuff over forty years, usually through reputed (UK) dealers, nobody has ever asked about provenance. Nor has it ever happened that anybody ever inquired about VAT. I will not be advocating grey imports, on the contrary, I think one should support a trusted dealer, but there is no need to spread FUD. You are probably not familiar with one major UK dealer who requests from potential sellers who wish to PX items, or sell them, details as to where they bought the camera/lens from originally. The dealer asks potential sellers to download a form which requests full provenance details including origin and date of purchase. I have sold to and PX'd with the dealer myself and completed the forms to their satisfaction i.e. that the items were bona fide UK imports. One of my colleagues was refused a PX deal because the item he wished to trade was in fact a grey import; the dealer actually stated that there could be doubt that VAT had been paid on import. The well known UK dealer lists and sells secondhand Leica equipment and has done so for several years but is not an official Leica dealer. Just stating facts … thus not spreading FUD. I have PMd you the name of the reputable dealer; you may wish to explore their website including their buying and PX terms and conditions. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likealot Posted July 4, 2015 Share #92 Posted July 4, 2015 You are mistaken. Red Dot Cameras are listed as a Premier Plus Dealer on the Leica web site. See the Dealer Locator at http://uk.leica-camera.com/Stores-Dealers/Leica-dealer-locator Here is a screen grab of their entry on the Leica site: reddot.jpg I have bought several cameras from Red Dot over the years and recommend them highly. I stand corrected and thank you for your info. I have worked out that what was happening was that the Leica website was showing me the dealers in the Manchester area only and I have to click the other UK regions in order to be able to see dealers in those regions. You are probably not familiar with one major UK dealer who requests from potential sellers who wish to PX items, or sell them, details as to where they bought the camera/lens from originally. The dealer asks potential sellers to download a form which requests full provenance details including origin and date of purchase. I have sold to and PX'd with the dealer myself and completed the forms to their satisfaction i.e. that the items were bona fide UK imports. One of my colleagues was refused a PX deal because the item he wished to trade was in fact a grey import; the dealer actually stated that there could be doubt that VAT had been paid on import. The well known UK dealer lists and sells secondhand Leica equipment and has done so for several years but is not an official Leica dealer. Just stating facts … thus not spreading FUD. I have PMd you the name of the reputable dealer; you may wish to explore their website including their buying and PX terms and conditions. dunk That is what I was trying to find out: if knowledge of dealers like the above was permitted to be shared in the forum or not. Sometimes newbies like myself are very prone to falling for either hype or scams and a forum like this is an excellent font of knowledge to provide guidance/advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted July 5, 2015 Share #93 Posted July 5, 2015 I don't know about Dunk's dealer but I have bought and sold many Leicas and never been asked where it was bought. Leica's guarantee is world wide and that is an attraction of the camera. If you have no receipt or any documentation Leica will still honour a full guarantee from the manufacturing date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 5, 2015 Share #94 Posted July 5, 2015 Exactly my experience. The dealer Dunk means is a general second-hand photographic shop (not an official Leica dealer as far as I am aware, they don't even have a Leica banner on their site ) thus selling mainly Japanese stuff. They use this rule because Japanese camera service is not worldwide and will exclude gear that does go through channels that the local importers deem improper. Fortunately this is not the case for Leica and it was never the case, even long before EU regulations made the practice illegal for manufacturers (but Japan is outside the EU ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likealot Posted July 5, 2015 Share #95 Posted July 5, 2015 Exactly my experience. The dealer Dunk means is a general second-hand photographic shop (not an official Leica dealer as far as I am aware, they don't even have a Leica banner on their site ) thus selling mainly Japanese stuff. They use this rule because Japanese camera service is not worldwide and will exclude gear that does go through channels that the local importers deem improper. Fortunately this is not the case for Leica and it was never the case, even long before EU regulations made the practice illegal for manufacturers (but Japan is outside the EU ). Am I right in assuming that if I bought the camera from a non UK retailer and if it developed a fault within the warranty period I can contact Leica direct rather than having to go through the shop I bought it from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 5, 2015 Share #96 Posted July 5, 2015 Yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 5, 2015 Share #97 Posted July 5, 2015 Yes … but: Would Leica Mayfair remedy a faulty grey market Leica? Would Leica Mayfair replace a non-repairable grey market Leica? If not, you'd have to send it to Leica Germany and probably have to bear the cost of shipping and insurance yourself … which is expensive. Official UK Leica dealers would take care of all shipping to/from Germany at no charge within the warranty period and might even arrange collection from your address. When I've experienced malfunctions within warranty and passport periods my official UK Leica dealer arranged for Leica Germany to send me prepaid shipping documents free of charge and also arranged collection. If buying from a grey market dealer you should make doubly sure they provide the official Leica warranty documents - and not just their own. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likealot Posted July 5, 2015 Share #98 Posted July 5, 2015 If Leica warranty is international then does the term "grey market camera" apply to its products? Also I would have thought that no matter what country I bought the Leica camera from Leica Germany should send prepaid shipping documents if that camera develops a fault within its warranty period. Is this not the case? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 5, 2015 Share #99 Posted July 5, 2015 Any Leica item imported and sold by a non-Leica approved dealer is 'grey'. I'm sorry but I do not have time to answer any further questions … all you need to know is documented in the foregoing replies. You might consider phoning Leica Mayfair to consult their Customer Service Dept. if you have any further questions. Or maybe contact your preferred potential sellers direct. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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