Leica X (Typ 113) Sensor?

[Feudal1]

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I see that some folks are getting their Type 113's. Where the heck are you getting them from? It's only available for preorder in all the online vendors like B&H. I'd like to get mine ASAP.

 

Picked mine up from the Leica store in DC. They only showed up on Friday, so I suspect B&H and others will receive shipments next week.

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[Feudal1]

Indeed. But, as you most likely know, Leica isn't just about latest features and speed or bang for buck. It's also about pure photography feeling, quality lenses, quality build.. it's meant to be a tool that feels good to work with and provides simple & uncluttered user interface. It's a bit like driving old sports cars from the 70' or 80's - expensive, slower than current japanese crop but offers much more driving pleasure.

 

On paper the X loses to most competition, in intended use it'll hold it's own - even more so within it's target users group. Heck, even panny-Leica latest D-lux can challenge it technically.. but user experience, no contest.

 

//Juha

 

Agreed!

 

I played with a Sony A6000. Just my opinion, but it's not that great. And you still have to buy a quality lens to get anything worthwhile out of it (the kit lens is pretty poor). The Sonar 24mm f/1.8 is about as close as Sony gets to anything compared to the Leica Summilux 23mm f/1.7 lens married to the X Type 113. Even so, it's not as good as the Leica. The A6000 price just dropped $50. So $600 for A6000, and $1100 for the Sonar lens puts you at $1700. The X costs $2300.

 

The additional $600 gets you a much better camera body, a much better JPG engine, and a much better lens. Sure, the sensor may be the same (or a tweaked version of the same), but everything else on the Leica is better. Much better.

[Ecaton]

Agreed!

 

I played with a Sony A6000. Just my opinion, but it's not that great. And you still have to buy a quality lens to get anything worthwhile out of it (the kit lens is pretty poor). The Sonar 24mm f/1.8 is about as close as Sony gets to anything compared to the Leica Summilux 23mm f/1.7 lens married to the X Type 113. Even so, it's not as good as the Leica. The A6000 price just dropped $50. So $600 for A6000, and $1100 for the Sonar lens puts you at $1700. The X costs $2300.

 

The additional $600 gets you a much better camera body, a much better JPG engine, and a much better lens. Sure, the sensor may be the same (or a tweaked version of the same), but everything else on the Leica is better. Much better.

 

The a6000 has the newest aps-c sensor under the hood with 24 MP. The X113 sensor is technology Sony used in previous generation cameras. The X113 should have been equipped with this new sensor, preferably sans AA filter. The new Summilux lens would have deserved it.

[larsv]

I see that some folks are getting their Type 113's. Where the heck are you getting them from? It's only available for preorder in all the online vendors like B&H. I'd like to get mine ASAP.

 

They became available in Holland on Friday.

[colonel]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

I am still not convinced of the sensor. I have a X1 and a X2. Most of the time take the X2 when going out for pictures. Fast AF, higher ISO etc., the X2 was a big step over the X1.

 

But since the very beginning I have the impression the very very very good shots more frequently come from my X1 and not the X2.

 

So is the X2 sensor really up to date?

 

- TK

 

I believe that he X2 AA filter was too strong

I also felt it was not as sharp as competing APS-C products

You can see the difference in the XV and T, which have improved and more improved sharpness using the same sensor (weak AA and no AA)

[Maxx71]

Picked mine up from the Leica store in DC. They only showed up on Friday, so I suspect B&H and others will receive shipments next week.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I just got back from the local Leica store. Ordered a black one. Leaving work early tomorrow to pick it up! While I was at the store, I tried the X vario grip on the 113 and it fit perfectly.

 

Cheers!

[Gioacchino]

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I have both and I am a very satified GR owner, too. I'll keep it for the occasions when I need to put a camera in my pocket. But for the rest? I bought mine on friday and was out with it on saturday in the streets of my town. It's a huge pleasure to photograph, the colours are different, beautiful, smooth. I was anxious to have bought the wrong camera after my GR, but it's superb. And it is a real beauty, I have - I know that it is wrong, but I could not resist - the silver-brown one.

[jonoslack]

And it is a real beauty, I have - I know that it is wrong, but I could not resist - the silver-brown one.

 

That's not wrong - it looks lovely (I had a black one to test, but I'd love the silver brown one).

[jjb]

I know that it is wrong, but I could not resist ...

 

haha. very understandable - she's a real beauty!

 

reminded me of a 70's R&B classic with the title "If Loving You is Wrong (I Don't Want To Be Right!)"

 

such is the real danger of visiting a Leica shop these days, love at first sight. My compliments to whoever designed the 113.

[Feudal1]

I have both and I am a very satified GR owner, too. I'll keep it for the occasions when I need to put a camera in my pocket. But for the rest? I bought mine on friday and was out with it on saturday in the streets of my town. It's a huge pleasure to photograph, the colours are different, beautiful, smooth. I was anxious to have bought the wrong camera after my GR, but it's superb. And it is a real beauty, I have - I know that it is wrong, but I could not resist - the silver-brown one.

Yes, the silver-brown has real character. Black cameras are more subtle and understated, but there is something about this typ 113 that really appeals.

[jlindstrom]

And one usability feature that hasn't been mentioned too often.. I found it very frustrating to use the EVF on the X2 (and also M240!) because you have to manually switch the lv from lcd to evf and back. This new X Typ113 (and also Leica T) finally have a sensor in place to switch automagically.

 

That should make a huge difference in evf shooting pleasure.

 

Jono, you've used it. Did it work well?

 

//Juha

[Feudal1]

And one usability feature that hasn't been mentioned too often.. I found it very frustrating to use the EVF on the X2 (and also M240!) because you have to manually switch the lv from lcd to evf and back. This new X Typ113 (and also Leica T) finally have a sensor in place to switch automagically.

 

That should make a huge difference in evf shooting pleasure.

 

Jono, you've used it. Did it work well?

 

//Juha

 

I've used it (the Visoflex EVF), and it's an improvement in every way. The autoswitching between LCD and EVF when putting your eye to the EVF is great!

[leicatraveller]

Agreed!

 

 

The additional $600 gets you a much better camera body, a much better JPG engine, and a much better lens. Sure, the sensor may be the same (or a tweaked version of the same), but everything else on the Leica is better. Much better.

 

sorry not the sensor is a 4 years old sony sensor used in entry level sony alphas cameras like A580 A550 (more then 4 years ago) and some entry level nikon cameras.....

the A6000 is a new generation sensor with 24mp not 16...

for lens if you dont need really fast lens with 150/200 usd you can buy the sigma 19mm f2.8 and 30mm F2.8 (and the last is a razor sharp lens...the same used on DP series...that is a wonderful lens)

so in my case i would opt for this option, having 2 lens and a camera body with EVF for 900 USD total :-)

[colonel]

It's still the current sensor for Fuji as well. Yes they define a different colour array but I think the chip is made by Sony (or Toshiba)

[Feudal1]

sorry not the sensor is a 4 years old sony sensor used in entry level sony alphas cameras like A580 A550 (more then 4 years ago) and some entry level nikon cameras.....

the A6000 is a new generation sensor with 24mp not 16...

for lens if you dont need really fast lens with 150/200 usd you can buy the sigma 19mm f2.8 and 30mm F2.8 (and the last is a razor sharp lens...the same used on DP series...that is a wonderful lens)

so in my case i would opt for this option, having 2 lens and a camera body with EVF for 900 USD total :-)

 

Even if Leica is using the same 16mp sensor, with no tweaks or enhancements, it holds it's own very nicely against the newer 24mp sensor. This DXO comparison is for the Nikon D7000 vs the D7100 - Sony 16mp sensor vs Sony 24 mp sensor:

 

Nikon D7000 versus Nikon D7100 - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

 

Overall score - D7100 with the 24mp sensor is 83, D7000 with 16mp sensor is 80. The newer 24mp sensor gains a tiny amount of color depth, but loses a tiny bit of dynamic range compared to the older 16mp sensor. Outside of the boost from 16mp to 24mp, the sensor performance is essentially the same.

 

The performance of a camera isn't just about the sensor. It's about the lens. And the JPG engine. And the signal processor. And the AF system. And the body. Given the negligible differences between the two sensors, these other aspects of the camera become more important. They are the deciding factors.

 

Everyone has difference priorities. Personally, I much prefer the JPG engine in the Leica X Typ 113; the Sony colors have never looked quite right to me. I also prefer the build of Leica body compared to the A6000. And the Summilux 23mm f/1.7 - in a different league to the Sigma lenses. Another thing to keep in mind with Sigma lenses - they tend to require in-body micro adjustments to deliver correct focusing. I've owned several Sigma lenses, and each has had front or back focusing issues.

 

It sounds like you would be happy with the A6000. That's great! But for me, having owned a number of cameras over the years, I would never again purchase another Sony body, or Sigma lens. I purchased an A6000 and a pretty good lens, and returned it a few days later. The lower price was attractive, and the AF burst speed was good. But the IQ wasn't very good, despite purchasing a fairly expensive lens from Sony. For me, Leica gets all the important things right - it nails the focus every time, and gets the colors right. Images are sharp. The lens is excellent. The body is premium. For me, the camera IQ is about a lot more than just the sensor. I would rather save up, and spend a more of a camera that gets me the results that I really want and expect.

 

The X Typ 113 isn't going to be for everyone. However, I can't imagine anyone who does decide to purchase it, being disappointed with image quality.

[Guest]

Even if Leica is using the same 16mp sensor, with no tweaks or enhancements, it holds it's own very nicely against the newer 24mp sensor. This DXO comparison is for the Nikon D7000 vs the D7100 - Sony 16mp sensor vs Sony 24 mp sensor:

 

Nikon D7000 versus Nikon D7100 - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

 

Overall score - D7100 with the 24mp sensor is 83, D7000 with 16mp sensor is 80. The newer 24mp sensor gains a tiny amount of color depth, but loses a tiny bit of dynamic range compared to the older 16mp sensor. Outside of the boost from 16mp to 24mp, the sensor performance is essentially the same.

 

The performance of a camera isn't just about the sensor. It's about the lens. And the JPG engine. And the signal processor. And the AF system. And the body. Given the negligible differences between the two sensors, these other aspects of the camera become more important. They are the deciding factors.

 

Everyone has difference priorities. Personally, I much prefer the JPG engine in the Leica X Typ 113; the Sony colors have never looked quite right to me. I also prefer the build of Leica body compared to the A6000. And the Summilux 23mm f/1.7 - in a different league to the Sigma lenses. Another thing to keep in mind with Sigma lenses - they tend to require in-body micro adjustments to deliver correct focusing. I've owned several Sigma lenses, and each has had front or back focusing issues.

 

It sounds like you would be happy with the A6000. That's great! But for me, having owned a number of cameras over the years, I would never again purchase another Sony body, or Sigma lens. I purchased an A6000 and a pretty good lens, and returned it a few days later. The lower price was attractive, and the AF burst speed was good. But the IQ wasn't very good, despite purchasing a fairly expensive lens from Sony. For me, Leica gets all the important things right - it nails the focus every time, and gets the colors right. Images are sharp. The lens is excellent. The body is premium. For me, the camera IQ is about a lot more than just the sensor. I would rather save up, and spend a more of a camera that gets me the results that I really want and expect.

 

The X Typ 113 isn't going to be for everyone. However, I can't imagine anyone who does decide to purchase it, being disappointed with image quality.

 

 

Yes, Yes, Yes - I use the XVario. leica colors, sharpness a.o. the best. my dream-team: VXario + D-Lux, superb and perfect.

 

kind regards, klaus-michael

[Ecaton]

Even if Leica is using the same 16mp sensor, with no tweaks or enhancements, it holds it's own very nicely against the newer 24mp sensor. This DXO comparison is for the Nikon D7000 vs the D7100 - Sony 16mp sensor vs Sony 24 mp sensor:

 

Nikon D7000 versus Nikon D7100 - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

 

Overall score - D7100 with the 24mp sensor is 83, D7000 with 16mp sensor is 80. The newer 24mp sensor gains a tiny amount of color depth, but loses a tiny bit of dynamic range compared to the older 16mp sensor. Outside of the boost from 16mp to 24mp, the sensor performance is essentially the same.

 

The performance of a camera isn't just about the sensor. It's about the lens. And the JPG engine. And the signal processor. And the AF system. And the body. Given the negligible differences between the two sensors, these other aspects of the camera become more important. They are the deciding factors.

 

Everyone has difference priorities. Personally, I much prefer the JPG engine in the Leica X Typ 113; the Sony colors have never looked quite right to me. I also prefer the build of Leica body compared to the A6000. And the Summilux 23mm f/1.7 - in a different league to the Sigma lenses. Another thing to keep in mind with Sigma lenses - they tend to require in-body micro adjustments to deliver correct focusing. I've owned several Sigma lenses, and each has had front or back focusing issues.

 

It sounds like you would be happy with the A6000. That's great! But for me, having owned a number of cameras over the years, I would never again purchase another Sony body, or Sigma lens. I purchased an A6000 and a pretty good lens, and returned it a few days later. The lower price was attractive, and the AF burst speed was good. But the IQ wasn't very good, despite purchasing a fairly expensive lens from Sony. For me, Leica gets all the important things right - it nails the focus every time, and gets the colors right. Images are sharp. The lens is excellent. The body is premium. For me, the camera IQ is about a lot more than just the sensor. I would rather save up, and spend a more of a camera that gets me the results that I really want and expect.

 

The X Typ 113 isn't going to be for everyone. However, I can't imagine anyone who does decide to purchase it, being disappointed with image quality.

 

I have the X113 since last Tuesday. Just to put some of your unsubstantiated statements straight. IQ is nice, up to Leica standard. Yet any of the fixed focal length lenses of either of the Sigma DP Merrills can easily hold its own in comparison. IQ wise, the Sigma Merrills run circles around the X113, without a sweat. And yes, I like the X113, it`s fun to shoot and IQ is good. But there a few fixed lens cameras in the market which trump its IQ.

[Feudal1]

I have the X113 since last Tuesday. Just to put some of your unsubstantiated statements straight. IQ is nice, up to Leica standard. Yet any of the fixed focal length lenses of either of the Sigma DP Merrills can easily hold its own in comparison. IQ wise, the Sigma Merrills run circles around the X113, without a sweat. And yes, I like the X113, it`s fun to shoot and IQ is good. But there a few fixed lens cameras in the market which trump its IQ.

 

I don't disagree. Cameras like the Ricoh GR and Nikon Coolpix A also have excellent IQ and lenses. I was simply talking about the comparison of the X113 to the Sony A6000.

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[leicatraveller]

Even if Leica is using the same 16mp sensor, with no tweaks or enhancements, it holds it's own very nicely against the newer 24mp sensor. This DXO comparison is for the Nikon D7000 vs the D7100 - Sony 16mp sensor vs Sony 24 mp sensor:

 

Nikon D7000 versus Nikon D7100 - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

 

the Summilux 23mm f/1.7 - in a different league to the Sigma lenses. Another thing to keep in mind with Sigma lenses - they tend to require in-body micro adjustments to deliver correct focusing. I've owned several Sigma lenses, and each has had front or back focusing issues.

/QUOTE]

 

i m a big fan of Sigma DP cameras.... so i was looking in past months on sigma forums and review...well the Dp2 Quattro keep almost on pair with nikon D800 in details /sharpness...the quality is almost on the level of a medium format and belive me for resolve this foveon sensor you need a "summilux quality" lens ...

 

just take a look on sigma forum on dpreview...

[Markus111]

Agreed!

 

I played with a Sony A6000. Just my opinion, but it's not that great. And you still have to buy a quality lens to get anything worthwhile out of it (the kit lens is pretty poor). The Sonar 24mm f/1.8 is about as close as Sony gets to anything compared to the Leica Summilux 23mm f/1.7 lens married to the X Type 113. Even so, it's not as good as the Leica. The A6000 price just dropped $50. So $600 for A6000, and $1100 for the Sonar lens puts you at $1700. The X costs $2300.

 

The additional $600 gets you a much better camera body, a much better JPG engine, and a much better lens. Sure, the sensor may be the same (or a tweaked version of the same), but everything else on the Leica is better. Much better.

 

Add EVF to your 2.300 $ to get th same as SONY