wlaidlaw Posted September 18, 2014 Share #181 Posted September 18, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Every professional photographer I have watched working in digital, has chimped pretty much at every shot, so I don’t feel guilty about occasionally doing that. I therefore feel that a digital camera without a rear screen is a bit of a gimmick. Apart from checking exposure, the screen/EVF is useful for composition as well. In addition I like being able to customise the way the camera behaves to suit my methods of working. There is nothing to stop me setting the camera to factory settings and then putting on a camera case or even cheaper some black tank tape, to arrive at an edition 60. Nothing forces you to look at the screen but it’s there if you want it. Sure it is a very pretty camera and if say they had been able to bring it down to the size of my IIF, I could well have been interested. Otherwise I think it is an unnecessary diversion of effort that should have been going into an M260 or M240 Mk.2, with improved reliability/faster processor, better or even integrated hybrid EVF/RF, better metering and maybe even better high ISO performance. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 18, 2014 Posted September 18, 2014 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Why would anyone want a Leica with no screen?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Samir Jahjah Posted September 18, 2014 Share #182 Posted September 18, 2014 With no screen, it has a severe limitation as a digital camera. Ironically, that gives it much greater appeal as a collector's item. So it may turn out to be a good investment for some collectors. No problem at all. It's a win for all concerned. Most likely the EVF will work as the camera (movie) button is still there...so it may offer the possibility of an EVF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted September 18, 2014 Share #183 Posted September 18, 2014 Most likely the EVF will work as the camera (movie) button is still there...so it may offer the possibility of an EVF. Yes, it is still compatible with the EVF. The movie button seems to be primarily there to facilitate viewfinder display of battery & SD card info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted September 18, 2014 Share #184 Posted September 18, 2014 Most likely the EVF will work as the camera (movie) button is still there...so it may offer the possibility of an EVF. I assume you have seen pictures of new camera and familiar with current M typ 240 layout, please explain where do you plug EVF on M 60 camera? Regarding M button on top plate there is interview on web done by David Farkas with Stefan Daniel who explains how SD card and battery status are checked - check REd Dot Forum http://www.reddotforum.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted September 18, 2014 Share #185 Posted September 18, 2014 I assume you have seen pictures of new camera and familiar with current M typ 240 layout, please explain where do you plug EVF on M 60 camera? Regarding M button on top plate there is interview on web done by David Farkas with Stefan Daniel who explains how SD card and battery status are checked - check REd Dot Forum http://www.reddotforum.com regarding the EVF see paragraph 4 here Just Announced: The “Leica 60” Special Edition M Digital Rangefinder | explora Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted September 18, 2014 Share #186 Posted September 18, 2014 I assume you have seen pictures of new camera and familiar with current M typ 240 layout, please explain where do you plug EVF on M 60 camera? Regarding M button on top plate there is interview on web done by David Farkas with Stefan Daniel who explains how SD card and battery status are checked - check REd Dot Forum http://www.reddotforum.com regarding the EVF see paragraph 4 here, but I can't see the standard M240 EVF slot. Just Announced: The “Leica 60” Special Edition M Digital Rangefinder | explora Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted September 18, 2014 Share #187 Posted September 18, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) regarding the EVF see paragraph 4 here, but I can't see the standard M240 EVF slot. Just Announced: The “Leica 60” Special Edition M Digital Rangefinder | explora Mark, B&H is wrong, there is no EVF on special edition M 60. Transcript from the interview http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2014/09/photokina-2014-day-1-leica-m-system/ Even though there is no rear LCD, does a user have the option to use an EVF2? No, this would compromise the concept. If you would put the EVF on, users would then expect more menus and other complications. Also explanation of top M button. What is the M button on top used for? This is to tell basic info in the viewfinder. Press once for battery percentage remaining. Press once more for number of photos remaining on SD card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterkinchington Posted September 19, 2014 Share #188 Posted September 19, 2014 As a photographer who has spent the bulk of my career using film - particularly kodachrome 64 and 25 iso. The best combination of camera and film that I ever used was a leica M6 with the then new aspherical 35mm f1.4 lens and Kodachrome 25 the resulting transparencies were amazing. I love the concept of the M60 it allows you to just concentrate on getting the image - the raw dng file should allow for acceptable exposures providing you have a working knowledge of how to expose correctly under different lighting conditions. An excellent concept - Leica can I please have one! - I will willingly act as your ambassador for this camera in Australia. Cheers Peter Kinchington www.peterkinchington.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberto Watson Posted September 24, 2014 Share #189 Posted September 24, 2014 I absolutely love the idea of a view finder and nothing else behind my camera. Specialy something giving with the biggest ability to distract; for the poping image; for the operative options on the back ready to propouse you something all the time, and the fragility of glass screen pushed my nose into. If you add Monochrome on the name, boila! I want one of those. Now if posible, you could make all my opium drems come true, with a regular film compartment, just to take something off when needed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberto Watson Posted September 26, 2014 Share #190 Posted September 26, 2014 Every professional photographer I have watched working in digital, has chimped pretty much at every shot, so I don’t feel guilty about occasionally doing that. I therefore feel that a digital camera without a rear screen is a bit of a gimmick. Apart from checking exposure, the screen/EVF is useful for composition as well. In addition I like being able to customise the way the camera behaves to suit my methods of working. There is nothing to stop me setting the camera to factory settings and then putting on a camera case or even cheaper some black tank tape, to arrive at an edition 60. Nothing forces you to look at the screen but it’s there if you want it. Sure it is a very pretty camera and if say they had been able to bring it down to the size of my IIF, I could well have been interested. Otherwise I think it is an unnecessary diversion of effort that should have been going into an M260 or M240 Mk.2, with improved reliability/faster processor, better or even integrated hybrid EVF/RF, better metering and maybe even better high ISO performance. Wilson Absolutely agree with you, and a case is great, but very bulky, I´m still looking for the digital M that feels like an M3. Leica, I can test your cameras too, in Mexico ; ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 27, 2014 Share #191 Posted September 27, 2014 Every professional photographer I have watched working in digital, has chimped pretty much at every shot,[...] Wilson One reason we chimp is our insecurities regarding digital capture. When we have a session that pays ten times what the camera cost we like to be assured the unit is working properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 27, 2014 Share #192 Posted September 27, 2014 One reason we chimp is our insecurities regarding digital capture. When we have a session that pays ten times what the camera cost we like to be assured the unit is working properly. Pico, Even when using film for either medium or large format, I have seen professional photographers using sliding backs, where they compose and check focus on a screen, before sliding the film back into place. This is pretty close to chimping. I could coin the word pre-chimping but that would be a step too far Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted September 27, 2014 Share #193 Posted September 27, 2014 Isn't removing the screen a bit of a macho thing really? It adds nothing of value and takes away something that from time to time at least may be very helpful. It makes the camera more of a toy, albeit a fairly pretty toy. Or maybe a vulgar one, that shouts "look at me! I don't need a screen!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted September 27, 2014 Share #194 Posted September 27, 2014 Isn't removing the screen a bit of a macho thing really? It adds nothing of value and takes away something that from time to time at least may be very helpful. It makes the camera more of a toy, albeit a fairly pretty toy. Or maybe a vulgar one, that shouts "look at me! I don't need a screen!" I don't think it is necessarily a macho thing at all although it may be for some/many. At a risk of sounding like a princess who can't sleep because of a pea under her mattresses, I can see the attraction from an ergonomic/tactile point of view in being able to hold a camera without buttons and a screen on the back that can hinder the placement of thumbs and fingers. I'm not convinced either that a desire to simplify and reduce down options is a game of one-upmanship – if anything, it is an acceptance of a weakness to be distracted, etc. I think to describe this new cameras as more toylike is to unnecessary belittle those who are interested in it as dilettantes, less serious photographers, etc. It is a common game in this forum and makes me wonder which "side" is more guilty of being macho, posturing and so on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted September 27, 2014 Share #195 Posted September 27, 2014 ...photographers using sliding backs, where they compose and check focus on a screen, before sliding the film back into place. This is pretty close to chimping. It isn't really, at least not in the pejorative sense that "chimping" tends to be used. This is simply how you use many of these kind of cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted September 27, 2014 Share #196 Posted September 27, 2014 I don't think it is necessarily a macho thing at all although it may be for some/many. At a risk of sounding like a princess who can't sleep because of a pea under her mattresses, I can see the attraction from an ergonomic/tactile point of view in being able to hold a camera without buttons and a screen on the back that can hinder the placement of thumbs and fingers. I'm not convinced either that a desire to simplify and reduce down options is a game of one-upmanship – if anything, it is an acceptance of a weakness to be distracted, etc. I think to describe this new cameras as more toylike is to unnecessary belittle those who are interested in it as dilettantes, less serious photographers, etc. It is a common game in this forum and makes me wonder which "side" is more guilty of being macho, posturing and so on? I take your point Ian. But as I think you know I have a genuine concern (although I don't wish to overstate things here) that photography can be too much of a technological game, a sort of competitive sport where skill is so highly regarded that I suspect it often inhibits imagination and creative expression. I think the M60 may well pander to this photographically retrograde way of thinking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted September 27, 2014 Share #197 Posted September 27, 2014 But as I think you know I have a genuine concern (although I don't wish to overstate things here) that photography can be too much of a technological game, a sort of competitive sport where skill is so highly regarded that I suspect it often inhibits imagination and creative expression. Yes, I think this is true and the same thinking feeds into the way that cameras and lenses are often seen almost solely in terms of how they compare with other cameras and lenses, like a glorified (and very expensive) game of top trumps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted September 27, 2014 Share #198 Posted September 27, 2014 My problem is that the technology gets in the way. That, and I dislike the implementation in the M(240). What's attracting me about the M60 is the wide reports (you, Peter, included) that the rangefinder is a vast improvement, along with the sensor. This is pretty much the heart of the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted September 27, 2014 Share #199 Posted September 27, 2014 My problem is that the technology gets in the way. That, and I dislike the implementation in the M(240). What's attracting me about the M60 is the wide reports (you, Peter, included) that the rangefinder is a vast improvement, along with the sensor. This is pretty much the heart of the camera. Does it really get in the way? I always have the automatic review turned off but sometimes,very occasionally indeed but it does happen even after 50 years of taking photos, I find it helpful for example to check that I got the composition just right, which regardless of the improved rangefinder is not alwYs possible without the. LCD. Days go by when I could manage happily with no screen, but it is a useful facility that vastly expands the camera's utility even if I don't exploit it regularly. Also, a far greater potential distraction is the ability to change lenses. Would the M60 be improved if this ability were also removed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted September 27, 2014 Share #200 Posted September 27, 2014 What's attracting me about the M60 is the wide reports (you, Peter, included) that the rangefinder is a vast improvement, along with the sensor. Hi John, Compared to what? The M9/M-E or the M240? I thought it was identical to the latter. Regards, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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