Thinking of buying a Monochrom M

[kenneth]

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I very much want to buy a Monochrom M but I am concerned that, having made my purchase, the camera will become obsolete and Leica will not support the model any more some years down the line. A Leica Monochrom M is obscenely expensive and to find that a few years down the line Leica no longer supports the camera rendering it useless would not please me. I have used Leica M cameras for many years and I currently have a couple of M6 bodies and an assortment of Summicron optics which are all serviceable and will continue to be repairable but I hear that Leica are no longer supporting, for an example, the M8 which must not be great news for people paying out considerable amounts for their cameras. Are you, in some way able to allay my fears and give me the product confidence to buy a Monochrom M

[wattsy]

In the wake of the M8 LCD fiasco, Leica publicly stated that they aim to support their current models for ten years after discontinuation. That is clearly an aim rather than a promise but I think you can reasonably count on the Monochrom being repairable for a good few years yet.

[wildlightphoto]

I very much want to buy a Monochrom M but I am concerned that, having made my purchase, the camera will become obsolete and Leica will not support the model any more some years down the line. A Leica Monochrom M is obscenely expensive and to find that a few years down the line Leica no longer supports the camera rendering it useless would not please me. I have used Leica M cameras for many years and I currently have a couple of M6 bodies and an assortment of Summicron optics which are all serviceable and will continue to be repairable but I hear that Leica are no longer supporting, for an example, the M8 which must not be great news for people paying out considerable amounts for their cameras. Are you, in some way able to allay my fears and give me the product confidence to buy a Monochrom M

 

Anything electronic will be obsolete shortly after it reaches the market. A newer model will replace it sooner or later, electronic components will become difficult to source, etc. Yes the Monochrom will eventually become a paperweight. The trick is to use it.

 

My DMR is obsolete and if certain components become damaged it's irreparable - but it's been working for me for 9 years with no sign of quitting, and some components can still be serviced by Leica (but not the sensor or main PCB). It was expensive when new and I don't expect to pass it down to my grandchildren in working condition, but since the alternate cost was film & processing and the image quality from the DMR has been far beyond anything I'd ever seen in comparable-speed films I consider it a bargain.

[pop]

... I hear that Leica are no longer supporting, for an example, the M8 ...

 

This is not the case. Leica can not replace the display of the M8 any more because they ran out of stock. This will, of course, become a problem if your camera needs a new display. However, that's a rare case. The most usual case for wanting a new display is some kind of stain which develops on some of those cameras which may or may not be permanent. It does, however, not make the camera unusable, as far as I know.

 

Other than that, Leica still supports the M8.

[kenneth]

Anything electronic will be obsolete shortly after it reaches the market. A newer model will replace it sooner or later, electronic components will become difficult to source, etc. Yes the Monochrom will eventually become a paperweight. The trick is to use it.

 

My DMR is obsolete and if certain components become damaged it's irreparable - but it's been working for me for 9 years with no sign of quitting, and some components can still be serviced by Leica (but not the sensor or main PCB). It was expensive when new and I don't expect to pass it down to my grandchildren in working condition, but since the alternate cost was film & processing and the image quality from the DMR has been far beyond anything I'd ever seen in comparable-speed films I consider it a bargain.

I understand that argument, sadly, it is a situation I have to tolerate in order to write this but a £6000.00 camera, that in itself is an obscene price but I could countenance that if i was still able to get it serviced long term but I am not there yet

[andybarton]

The days of buying a camera and passing it on in your will to your grandchild (in proper working condition) have long since gone.

 

Unless you are already 90.

[kenneth]

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The days of buying a camera and passing it on in your will to your grandchild (in proper working condition) have long since gone.

 

Unless you are already 90.

Not the case with my M6's, Summicron Optics, Jaeger LeCoultre Reverso Duo wristwatch and Martin D35 Acoustic. it i so sad but I guess Leica do not make volume so the R&D has to be paid for somehow

[wattsy]

I understand that argument, sadly, it is a situation I have to tolerate in order to write this but a £6000.00 camera, that in itself is an obscene price but I could countenance that if i was still able to get it serviced long term but I am not there yet

 

There are plenty of other cameras available that are cheaper and just as good. Even if you insist on buying a digital Leica M, there are loads of better value options that will still provide a black and white digital file that is, on most meaningful measures, as good as a Monochrom file. Don't be swayed too much by the resolution (and so-called "malleability") advantages of the Monochrom output, the most important factor is still what you point the camera at. An uninteresting poorly composed photograph in uninteresting light will look just as crap taken with a Monochrom as it will with any other camera, no matter how many Silver Efex filters you run it through.

[MarkP]

The days of buying a camera and passing it on in your will to your grandchild (in proper working condition) have long since gone.

 

Unlike the lenses!

[andybarton]

Not the case with my M6's, Summicron Optics, Jaeger LeCoultre Reverso Duo wristwatch and Martin D35 Acoustic. it i so sad but I guess Leica do not make volume so the R&D has to be paid for somehow

 

But you are not comparing like with like.

 

I would bet £10 that a new Monochrom will outlive you.

 

If I buy something tomorrow in the reasonably certain knowledge that it will outlive me, then that's all I am worried about. Unless it's a pair of socks.

[wda]

...and will continue to be repairable but I hear that Leica are no longer supporting, for an example, the M8 which must not be great news for people paying out considerable amounts for their cameras. ...

Kenneth, I think it is fair to add that while anything electronic will have a shorter life than mechanical and optical components, if Leica are unable to repair an M8 through lack of vital parts, they will offer an attractive upgrade path to offset the disappointment of losing a trusted camera. I don't think many manufacturers routinely do that. So I don't think anecdotal evidence should over-influence your current judgement. Unless you are desperate to buy an M-Monochrom now, it might be worth exploring the likelihood of the model being replaced with a version based on the M-Typ 240.

[kenneth]

But you are not comparing like with like.

 

I would bet £10 that a new Monochrom will outlive you.

 

If I buy something tomorrow in the reasonably certain knowledge that it will outlive me, then that's all I am worried about. Unless it's a pair of socks.

But when you say it will outlive me are you saying that it will still produce photographs when I am no longer here or that it will make a super paper weight for decades to come. I am just trying to get my head around this as I would really like to have the facilities that a Monochrom M would give me.

 

My guitar, film cameras, wristwatches will still perform when I stop so I have no qualms about spending money on anything with longevity

[kenneth]

Kenneth, I think it is fair to add that while anything electronic will have a shorter life than mechanical and optical components, if Leica are unable to repair an M8 through lack of vital parts, they will offer an attractive upgrade path to offset the disappointment of losing a trusted camera. I don't think many manufacturers routinely do that. So I don't think anecdotal evidence should over-influence your current judgement. Unless you are desperate to buy an M-Monochrom now, it might be worth exploring the likelihood of the model being replaced with a version based on the M-Typ 240.

A friend of mine had this offer made to him by Leica when his M8 became unserviceable. They offered his 20% discount on a a M240. Big deal, Leica make profits both ends

[wildlightphoto]

My guitar, film cameras, wristwatches will still perform when I stop so I have no qualms about spending money on anything with longevity

 

My Leicaflex SL cameras, though expensive when new and in fine working order, will no longer perform as they used to because there is no more Kodachrome (and there are now only a few E6 films).

 

Regarding the argument that less costly digital cameras are just as good, I have not found this to be the case as have many others who wish to use Leica M lenses. A purely B&W sensor has numerous image quality advantages over an RGB sensor converted to B&W, likewise there are advantages the RGB sensor has when using color filtration.

 

Assuming the goal is high-quality images, the question I'd be asking myself is 'where is the limiting factor'? In rare cases it's the camera. More often than not the limiting factor is a couple of inches behind the viewfinder.

[jaapv]

Unlike the lenses!

 

Not sure about that. There is quite some quantum-leap technology in the pipeline that may make them obsolete in the mid- or long term.

[andybarton]

I think that one needs to be very careful about describing anything that still works as it was designed to "obsolete", although that is one of the definitions of the word

 

adjective

1. no longer in general use; fallen into disuse: an obsolete expression.

 

2. of a discarded or outmoded type; out of date: an obsolete battleship.

 

3. (of a linguistic form) no longer in use, especially, out of use for at least the past century.

 

4. effaced by wearing down or away.

Is a digital camera obsolete just because another one is now made that takes "better" photographs? Does a new model instantly render all previous ones obsolete even if they are still working perfectly?

 

A film camera will never be obsolete as long as there is film made to put into it. As soon as the last film is made, the camera will be useless.

[wda]

A friend of mine had this offer made to him by Leica when his M8 became unserviceable. They offered his 20% discount on a a M240. Big deal, Leica make profits both ends

My quick reaction is that the offer was probably fair, given the current market value of M8 cameras. Remember they do depreciate quite rapidly in their first three or four years. They are already two generations behind current offerings.

[kenneth]

My Leicaflex SL cameras, though expensive when new and in fine working order, will no longer perform as they used to because there is no more Kodachrome (and there are now only a few E6 films).

 

Regarding the argument that less costly digital cameras are just as good, I have not found this to be the case as have many others who wish to use Leica M lenses. A purely B&W sensor has numerous image quality advantages over an RGB sensor converted to B&W, likewise there are advantages the RGB sensor has when using color filtration.

 

Assuming the goal is high-quality images, the question I'd be asking myself is 'where is the limiting factor'? In rare cases it's the camera. More often than not the limiting factor is a couple of inches behind the viewfinder.

You could always load B&W film into your Leicaflex SL and still produce very good images which you could process yourself so theoretically your camera investment is still of value

[wattsy]

Likewise with your M6. I'm not quite sure what point you are making, Kenneth. The Monochrom's reliability, like all digital cameras, is subject to the vagaries of electronic parts and ultimately you have to take your chances. It is reasonable to expect that batteries (being the same as the M8 and M9 ones) will be around for many years to come and that the camera itself will be repairable by Leica for another five years or more, probably longer. In truth, there will come a point in future years when it will be more economical to buy a used Monochrom than pay Leica to make a major repair.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wildlightphoto]

You could always load B&W film into your Leicaflex SL and still produce very good images which you could process yourself so theoretically your camera investment is still of value

 

In the last 45 years the number of B&W photos I've sold can be counted on the thumbs of one hand. Theoretically, the camera can be used. Practically, it no longer does what I want it to. The SL is my all-time favorite SLR camera but for my purposes it might as well be a doorstop. It still has a partially-exposed roll of TMax 100 in it and has not been used since 2006.