M8 On the Line

[woodyspedden]

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After several months of sending M8s going back to Solms and not being able to get one to work for more than a week, my latest is going strong. I've slowly been working up to a point where I could trust it on a paying shoot and today I decided to put it on the line. I had a session with the Dalai Lama (rather important shoot) and decided to go into it light, so I took one M8 body, a 35/2 ASPH, 50/1.4 ASPH and the SF20. Initially, I did a bunch of strobed shots until I was comfortable I had usable images. Then I decided to experiment and see how the camera would hold up when pushed to the limit. The room was extremely dark, and the Dalai Lama is dark skinned--which makes for a serious available light challenge. There were a couple of windows behind him, but they were shuttered and the Secret Service wouldn't allow them to be opened. The shot below, which I consider quite usable, was done at ISO 2500 with the 35/2 wide open.

 

Brent

 

I apologize in advance for not knowing more about you but I am relatively new to this forum. Only comment I wanted to make is that you must be famous in order to get this close to the Dalai Lama for the purpose of image making. Two is that you certainly made the most of the opportunity! You didn't post the strobe assisted images but the high ISO shot shows the abilities of the M8 to a large degree. Not as noise free as (perhaps) the Canon bodies, but more than adequate to say the least.

 

Congratulations

 

Woody Spedden

[fotografr]

Lots of interesting ideas here as they relate to noise. When I get some down time I'm going to play around a bit.

 

Woody--I'm going to post a couple of the strobed images in a new thread for comparison. Thanks for your comments.

[girphoto]

I think that you did a great job on the shoot. The noise in the color images does not bother me, and I also had a session with the Dali Lama and Past Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida.

In my session thay were both laughing and having a good time. My only regret is that I was on a a tight deadline and had to shoot with Canon cameras and there was no Digital Leica around.

Some of thoes images can be seen on my web page.

But this is about your shoot and I say GREAT JOB!

Best

Gary

Gary I. Rothstein, Photography

[fotografr]

I think that you did a great job on the shoot. The noise in the color images does not bother me, and I also had a session with the Dali Lama and Past Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida.

In my session thay were both laughing and having a good time. My only regret is that I was on a a tight deadline and had to shoot with Canon cameras and there was no Digital Leica around.

Some of thoes images can be seen on my web page.

But this is about your shoot and I say GREAT JOB!

Best

Gary

Gary I. Rothstein, Photography

 

Thanks much, Gary. He also laughed quite a bit while I was with him here. In fact, one of the things I like most about him is his sense of humor. He loves to tell funny stories.

 

The shots on your website are outstanding.

[avsearle]

He's actually a very interesting and grounded person--completely the opposite of George Bush.

 

Hmmmm....

[scott kirkpatrick]

Would that be Joe Blfstk?

 

I got curious about this. Thought it was actually Joe Bflstk. Google gets hits for all conceivable spellings, although a fairly authoritative All Capp website says its Joe Btfsplk.

 

Anyone know for sure? or care?

 

scott

[sparkie]

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Great shot, the 35/2 is my favourite on the M8.

 

The question I have, after playing with iso/processing, I find I can shoot at 160 and open up +2 or +3 and it looks great, better than the equivalent of setting a higher iso to begin with. This is in either Lr or C1. The thing is, I really don't know what the exposure sliders really correspond to in terms of EV, but in this setting, would it have been better to shoot at iso 640, get a too dark image, and pull it up in processing-this in terms of total noise.

 

were you at the white house, (ie w/secret service)? I have a gig there sunday.

 

This is a good suggestion for keeping noise to a minimum. However if you shoot handheld most of the time (which is one of the strengths and attractions of the M camera) then you would be introducing the risk of camera shake with the slower shutter speeds (due to the darker exposure settings you suggest). So how would one get around this while still trying to exploit the lower ISO benefits? If you shoot with a tripod then its a none issue

[Jamie Roberts]

I{snipped}

my assumption is that the M8 is really a "two speed" bike, 160 and 640.

 

The best "effective" 2500 I think might be 640 +2 in C1, and even 160+4 (+2.5 ex, 1.5midtone, and slide the wp to the left) is very competitive.

 

{snipped}.

 

Robert--I've done some pretty extensive testing of this and to me it really depends on the exposure.

 

Well, duh. But what I mean is that if you're in need of a higher shutter to maintain sharpness, and you risk underexposing at all (or not being able to push "to the right" for exposure) then you must use a lower ISO, because the noise level on the M8 beyond 640 gets you.

 

Now, in this shot of Brent's, he nailed the exposure, because the noise isn't all that bad (I like it too--even the colour noise!), and there's nothing there that couldn't be easily cleaned up in post without sacrificing detail.

 

But if you were pushing an ISO 640 shot (x2) you might lose shutter, and the midtones also won't look the same. They're going to be ok, usually, but they're not the same.

 

So my rule is generally don't go above 1250 unless 2500 will give me a perfect +.5 exposure (therebouts); if I'm more than a stop under at 1250 I'd rather be at 640 if the shutter can take it.

 

In great light, of course, I shoot 160 or 320.

[robertwright]

about the shutter, my idea was to figure what the 2500iso exposure should be, and then use that but lower the iso to 640 and "push" +2. So you are not sacrificing shutter speed. Or the other way around, meter for 640 and close down 2. It is a little weird working this way, and there do seem to be some caveats:

 

where the rubber meets the road is on black fabrics, so maintaining detail there depends a lot on the quality of the light on the fabric, a strong point source will maintain contrast (and gain) contrast in the push, a soft light will not work as well. I saw that this weekend shooting on Wall street, trying to maintain a strong highlight on a building, so I underexposed...well, I underexposed too much, there was not much left to open up to, but what I was trying to hold was some fabric, dark, in a soft light. My previous tests had been under tungsten spotlights, which is tough for noise, but the light itself has "snap" which makes a difference on black fabric. this i was able to push successfully.

This approach would be hard to use moving around, to think 2500 but shoot 640. Metering would be the challenge, so a lot of chimping on the LCD.

 

I agree if you can nail the 2500, and really this is a function of everything, what are you exposing for, what are you trying to hold in highlights, etc, there is very little margin, and it helps to have very even lighting. Barring that, in a contrasty situation, like on stage for example, I think there is a case for 640+2.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I generally agree with Jamie on underexposing and pulling up the effective ISO seems to work very nice on the M8 and if shutter speed is critical than i tend to do this a lot

[mitchell]

Gary, I tried to go to your site twice, but each time my browser (Safari) quit. Thought you might like to know.

 

Nice shot Brent.

 

Best,

 

Mitchell

[girphoto]

Gary, I tried to go to your site twice, but each time my browser (Safari) quit. Thought you might like to know.

 

Nice shot Brent.

 

Best,

 

Mitchell

 

Thanks, I will look into it.

have you tried going from the leica forum site? Just ckicl on the link.

I use Microsoft Explorer and have no problem...

Sorry that I did not get right back but just returned from a week at the Kentucky Derby.

I will post M 8 at the derby later in the week.

Actually we had about 4 photogs with M8's around their necks.

The camera with the filter and release 1.102 is working fine.

(At some point I have to get this camera to Germany for the hardware update)

 

Thanks for the words on my web site and it is now under re-construction to be interactive, but until than the old one will have to do.

Best

Gary

Gary I. Rothstein, Photography

[telewatt]

I'm surprised to find myself saying this, but I actually LIKE the color noise in this photo. It gives a very grain-like feel.

 

.. :D ...me too.. ...great shot!

 

regards,

Jan

[carstenw]

Gary, I just reported your link to the Safari development team, so maybe they will fix the browser. Mine also crashes.

[fotografr]

For what it's worth, I just made a 10.5 x 7.2 inch print of this for a friend and the grain is no issue whatsoever. It's there, but really does not detract from the appearance.