jip Posted August 3, 2014 Share #41 Posted August 3, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nice images with a strong message! Good work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Hi jip, Take a look here Keep Calm and Free Palestine! . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wilfredo Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share #42 Posted August 3, 2014 Miller: As long as we don't hit below the belt, I think we can have civil and amicable discussions here. On a personal note, I prefer to leave our passionate points of views, political or otherwise, away from this thread. If I have slipped in that regard, then please accept my apologies. Am I biased? Yes, I am biased in favor of a just peace, and for building bridges of understanding on both sides of the fence, no pun intended. I'm attaching a few more photos I had previously hesitated to post. Please, political zealots, steer clear. I will let the photos speak for themselves. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/231115-keep-calm-and-free-palestine/?do=findComment&comment=2642088'>More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted August 3, 2014 Share #43 Posted August 3, 2014 Your images are outstanding, Wilfrdo - you have a truly evolved eye. My thought is that as documentary photographers, we must be able to produce excellent images objectively and without prejudice. You have met that challenge admirably. Regarding the hostilities between the Israelis and the Palestinians, JMHO but I think it would be fantastic if these folks would stop maiming and killing each other. For a time in the not too distant past, I studied under an Israeli woman. It may sound a bit odd, but she is a natural born Israeli and is also an ordained Buddhist nun. She is in my thoughts a lot these days. I hope she does not end up being killed in the ugliness that is taking place in her home land. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted August 3, 2014 Share #44 Posted August 3, 2014 Hi Wilfredo - I like these photos even more than the first set. The last two are particularly fantastic on many levels. Your selective focus is spot on and the tones are very inviting. Thanks for sharing. Best, Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share #45 Posted August 3, 2014 Thank you Carlos, and no, what you shared about the Israeli Buddhist woman does't surprise me. I know many Jews who lean towards Buddhism, being someone who moves in interfaith circles. I'm a practicing Christian who recently got married. My wife and I were married by a Jewish Rabbi, that's right, we had a Jewish wedding! We shared our first glass of wine together as part of the Jewish wedding rite, and we also smashed a glass. It was beautiful. Religion need not be used to divide, quite the contrary. Shalom! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'acieL Posted August 3, 2014 Share #46 Posted August 3, 2014 excellent reportage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted August 3, 2014 Share #47 Posted August 3, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I want to thank the Moderator for not shutting this thread down permanently. I never saw the controversial commentary before it was shut down, and so I was taken by surprise. Let me say this with the deepest humility. Some of the most renowned Leica M photographers in modern history have produced some of the greatest iconic photographs of the world, and many of them have been charged with political ramifications. It is in the Leica DNA to produce photos that will generate controversy, sometimes changing the course of history. Look at the work of the Magnum photographers, and you will immediately see what I mean. And take for example the Che Guevara photo by Korda. That's probably one of the most famous Leica M photos ever taken. BTW, Leica itself capitalized on this photo with one of its advertising campaigns. The photo I'm attaching here is from one of my Leica advertising booklets, one I won't part with. The caption on the cover reads: "Leica M, How Revolutionary Should Your Camera Be?" Politics will usually get a thread shut down on this forum but perhaps the Moderator should only delete comments that become insulting, and leave the rest? As much as I enjoy posting happy family and friends photos, or photos simply for their esthetic and artistic value, we would be denying a major chunk of the Leica legacy if nothing that could be construed as political were prohibited from being posted here. As I become an aging Leica photographer myself, I'm learning to keep my cool, but some of my photographs will always contain some level of fire. I would hate not to be able to post them on my favorite photography forum simply because some will use it as an opportunity to attack. I wish to endorse and echo A miller’s sentiments in post #40. Interesting, isn’t it, how a viewer can look at the same pictures as the photographer who took them and see them entirely differently. My reaction to these photos is exactly the opposite of Wilfredo’s. Partly, perhaps, because of their aesthetic and technical quality, I find them distinctly cool and lacking in passion. I see no fire. I have no objection whatever to Wilfredo’s posting photos on any subject he chooses. If the photos carry a message, so be it, but let them speak for themselves. It’s the verbal moralising which Wilfredo chose to accompany his photos that is out of place in this photo forum, especially as anyone attempting to comment from a different perspective has their post removed. What I see in Wilfredo's photos is a well executed and straightforward account of a demo.They are technically good photos but, in my opinion, possess no power to move, either pro or anti. There's nothing wrong with aspiring to emulate the great Leica users of the past but it's worth bearing in mind that it's the photographer that creates memorable photos not the camera. By the way, the photos could do with a little more space around them. Putting a few carriage returns between them should do the trick. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted August 3, 2014 Share #48 Posted August 3, 2014 .... snipped I have no objection whatever to Wilfredo’s posting photos on any subject he chooses. If the photos carry a message, so be it, but let them speak for themselves. It’s the verbal moralising which Wilfredo chose to accompany his photos that is out of place in this photo forum, especially as anyone attempting to comment from a different perspective has their post removed. . I am speaking here as a mod, but my personal opinion, in this instance agrees (not always). I have carefully revued, previously, Wilfredo's in this thread and I am still convinced, as before, he has not morally verbalised as you accuse him. I totally support his postings that are here, simply because he does not come down on either side with his comments. He only emplores for a peaceful end to a dreadful situation. He has not apportioned blame. He has simply presented a report on other people who clearly have views, as they are entitled. Wilfredo has not claimed them as his views, even if they are. Normally I would ignore kerfuffles such as this, but it has been collectively decided that NO political comment on this topic will be tolerated in this thread so the above oblique shot has been noted. Additionally, let me point out that ALL political comments were removed, including my own. It was NOT selectively done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share #49 Posted August 3, 2014 Euston: There is another thread on this forum posted by Avatar with plenty of fire and passion on the Israeli side of the crisis. This is not an attack on that thread, Avatar did an excellent job. You say that my photos lack passion and I agree. I had noted that myself and was wondering about it. This was a very peaceful demonstration unlike some of the demonstrations taking place in Europe. The people were orderly, and I did not hear any angry verbal attacks loaded with vitriol aimed at Israel. There were Jews in this demonstration, albeit a small minority besides the Hassidim from Williamsburg, Brooklyn, but they were there. Jewish Voice for Peace has been very active on this issue. The media tends to hype the tension and perhaps that's why there is no coverage of these demonstrations on the Palestinian side. Not enough vitriol and hatred? I am a peace activist and most people know that. This is one time I' m glad my photos lack passion. The beginning words in my title read: "Stay Calm." In a sense my photos are breaking down a semitic stereotype of Palestinian people. Let's all stay calm, without cool heads there won't be a way out of the current humanitarian crisis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted August 3, 2014 Share #50 Posted August 3, 2014 I have carefully revued, previously, Wilfredo's in this thread and I am still convinced, as before, he has not morally verbalised as you accuse him. I totally support his postings that are here, simply because he does not come down on either side with his comments. He only emplores for a peaceful end to a dreadful situation. He has not apportioned blame. He has simply presented a report on other people who clearly have views, as they are entitled. Wilfredo has not claimed them as his views, even if they are. I respectfully disagree I will give you a direct example. Wilfredo mentioned a number of dead. Firstly this was on one side only. Secondly this number is incorrect. I can explain the background but it would be regarded as political. Best Rgds all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted August 3, 2014 Share #51 Posted August 3, 2014 ...and the only part of my post that was censored (after it vanished for an hour or so) was the suggestion that just perhaps some of Palestinian deaths/injuries may have been due to misfired Hamas rockets and not all due to Israeli fire - a very strange thing to edit out because it had been widely stated but obviously thought to be a political comment by me (oh yes, I implied that Hamas, not Palestiian civilians, may not be nice guys and/or incompetent at launching rockets, and that only Israeli fire kills Palestinians). I think the problem here is that no-one will be happy no matter what is done here - too many raw nerves. Erl, this is not at all directed at you. Hot topic isn't it? Why do I get the sense that this post is about to get deleted or this thread is about to be closed again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted August 3, 2014 Share #52 Posted August 3, 2014 Colonel, It seems to me that you insist on having the last word, if only to repeat that you disagree, which of course you are free so to do, but you are not convincing, at least not me. (Initially I typed this in blue (mod), but changed my mind as it is opinion.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted August 3, 2014 Share #53 Posted August 3, 2014 You say that my photos lack passion and I agree. I had noted that myself and was wondering about it. This was a very peaceful demonstration unlike some of the demonstrations taking place in Europe. The people were orderly, and I did not hear any angry verbal attacks loaded with vitriol aimed at Israel. Fair enough, Wilfredo, if that’s the way it was you depicted the scene in an appropriate manner. But enough with the words! In particular, I found your post #7 out of place in this photo forum. Your words seemed to me to be making a different point from that made by your pictures. If you have an ideological, political or even humanitarian point to make, make it in photos and post the words elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted August 3, 2014 Share #54 Posted August 3, 2014 The pictures in my thread and the point of me attending the rally was not 'reportage' at least as far as making a political statement. Look at them and see images of shopping bags, cartoon characters, the lunatic fringe of a tiny fraction of pretty extreme Hasidim who believe Israel should only exist when god gives it to the jews. I was scouring the area to find protest groups or individuals to include but as said, it seems generally there are not groups loudly and or violently protesting against each other. That's not what I expected. In the thread I made I explained how GW covered these things and that's just how I want to do it. Irony, quirkiness, humor and anything else that catches my eye. If I had wanted to make my coverage as one sided as other threads seem to be and to add my own commentary in words I could have. This thread frankly is different in my opinion and from the thread name to the subtle and even innocent comments, I found it to be political from the get go. And no amount of discussion is going to get those who don't see or agree to understand. Lastly, regardless of the right to quote a protest sign as the thread topic, before I would do that I might simply consider that it might be considered in support of the quote and just for the sake of sensitivity that others will not agree, I would not have chosen such a title. I don't think this was done out of maliciousness but added together with commentary on who is to blame ("The West") to me this was a very political thread from the start. There should have been zero commentary on choosing which facts to state as any response in disagreement was considered "political' when clearly the comments made by the OP were political. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted August 3, 2014 Share #55 Posted August 3, 2014 Colonel, It seems to me that you insist on having the last word, if only to repeat that you disagree, which of course you are free so to do, but you are not convincing, at least not me. (Initially I typed this in blue (mod), but changed my mind as it is opinion.) Erl, you are reducing Colonel's point and making it about the 'last word'. That's really what keeps happening here and again, after comments in rebuttal are made to what some of us feel are PURELY political, we are told they will be deleted and no political comments are allowed. Which is what I expect to happen once again. You had so poignantly described how the camera is the ultimate liar. I agree completely. I'll add that 'facts' are equally the ultimate liar, or better said, facts that depict a carefully chosen statistic or comment to which commentary in response is not allowed creates a lie all it's own. This is a perfect example why I feel political threads should not be allowed on the forum. I speak as an Admin on two very large forums who was responsible for deciding direction and as I said, I deeply regret allowing and participating both as a member and an Admin (yes I did it in blue too). It's simply impossible to be so detached and removed that there is no bias. Just as the OP and myself have our opinions and yes there is an automatic 'bias' whether we admit it or not. By members, Mods and Admins. It's just not possible to think one can Moderate and participate in the thread and be truly detached from the issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted August 3, 2014 Share #56 Posted August 3, 2014 Euston: There is another thread on this forum posted by Avatar with plenty of fire and passion on the Israeli side of the crisis. This is not an attack on that thread, Avatar did an excellent job. You say that my photos lack passion and I agree. I had noted that myself and was wondering about it. This was a very peaceful demonstration unlike some of the demonstrations taking place in Europe. The people were orderly, and I did not hear any angry verbal attacks loaded with vitriol aimed at Israel. There were Jews in this demonstration, albeit a small minority besides the Hassidim from Williamsburg, Brooklyn, but they were there. Jewish Voice for Peace has been very active on this issue. The media tends to hype the tension and perhaps that's why there is no coverage of these demonstrations on the Palestinian side. Not enough vitriol and hatred? I am a peace activist and most people know that. This is one time I' m glad my photos lack passion. The beginning words in my title read: "Stay Calm." In a sense my photos are breaking down a semitic stereotype of Palestinian people. Let's all stay calm, without cool heads there won't be a way out of the current humanitarian crisis. The small voice of some jews were not speaking for the Hassidim. They are considered an extremist group to say the least and was comprised of 20 individuals as compared to the 3000 plus at the support rally. As said, I included them because they were interesting and that I was desperately trying to find contrast and also bits of humor..I included cartoon characters, sleeping babies, shopping bags doing my best to mix it all up.. "The media tends to hype the tension and perhaps that's why there is no coverage of these demonstrations on the Palestinian side. Not enough vitriol and hatred? " This quote above is again, a VERY political statement. As this thread has been right from the start. It seems the Moderators do not agree. That's ok, it's clear that politics and bias or lack of bias is a matter of personal perspective and opinion. Anyway, we are going in circles here, I for one am done commenting in this thread as I've shared as best I could my opinion as have others and we will just keep spinning. I for one will be very clear and careful if I ever share images of protest signs as they can really rile people up. The one exception I will make is the image I have of a young girls asking for spare change with a sign saying "Need $$$ for weed" Have a good rest of weekend all. I am going out to shoot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted August 3, 2014 Share #57 Posted August 3, 2014 Colonel, It seems to me that you insist on having the last word, if only to repeat that you disagree, which of course you are free so to do, but you are not convincing, at least not me. (Initially I typed this in blue (mod), but changed my mind as it is opinion.) If lying about numbers in a political conflict is not political I don't know what is. BTW I am not accusing Wifredo of lying, but his source of information. As Avatar says I think I am also done with this thread. Nice photos Wilfredo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share #58 Posted August 3, 2014 On a technical point, and this is a biased statement, I love my Leica MM camera! I received many years of satisfaction from my Leica M8, and quite frankly, working with the MM has given me a satisfaction I've never experienced before. Many of you have made reference to the pleasing tones in my photos, and to a great degree, it's because of the Monochrom. Post processing has never been more fun. The wide range of latitude I get from this camera, and the ability to shoot at higher ISO's with no noticeable noise is quite liberating! Thanks again for the positive feedback on the work presented here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leica Fanatic Posted August 3, 2014 Share #59 Posted August 3, 2014 Interesting thread. It is said that the mark of a great photograph is if it generates a thought, an emotion, a discussion or a reaction from the viewer/s. Wilfredo, I think it's safe to assume your photographs are great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveclem Posted August 7, 2014 Share #60 Posted August 7, 2014 What was that quote from Voltaire again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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