Adding AE to an M photographer's bag - the R7?

[philipus]

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Hello everybody

 

I use the M system - M6TTL and M4 - and have considered adding an M7 because of the AE.

 

But I confess having for a long time also been very intrigued by and interested in the R system. I am originally an SLR shooter (EOS) so there are certain types of photography - macro and tele for instance - that I miss with my M system.

 

This has made me wonder if I shouldn't consider adding an R body with AE to whack two birds with one stone - trying the R system and getting AE. However, I am a bit bewildered as to which body that would be. I should say that I can't add both an M7 and an R body plus lens(es) and of course realise that adding an R body wouldn't let me use my M lenses but that's ok with me.

 

The R7 seems nice, being a more modern body while size-wise being similar to the film Ms. Should I consider that one above the other models?

 

Thank you very much in advance, I appreciate your help

Philip

[sc_rufctr]

If you really want AE then it would be hard to go past the R7 but a good M7 is getting cheaper by the day. (almost)

 

Also... Have you considered an R8?

[LeicaBraz]

Big advantage of the R system is the full field vs selective metering program. Of course, if you want automated options, then I would go with the R7 (aperture priority, shutter priority and auto program). I prefer it to the R8 just because of size and portability.

But let me say that my favorite is the R 6.2, probably because I know it is fully mechanical.

Only drawback to a certain extent is the shutter release travel. I admit it is the only Leica in which it makes sense (to me ) to use a soft release button.

Also own the M7 and the auto program works excellently well.

Just bear in mind going with the R's you'll have to acquire new lenses.

 

But in full honesty, I use the M's more often - and that would be the M6 classical over the M6 TTL (and over the M3, the M7, and the MP which I also own).

 

Nice to have these many choices.

 

Good luck in your decision and brgds.

[TomB_tx]

I've used an R4 since the mid 80s, and it works well in auto exposure modes. The bodies are bargains now. Manual modes on the R4 are a pain: have to read numbers in two locations and match them. I believe manual on the R7 is much better. R lenses are no longer the bargains they were a few years back.

Instead of an M7 I added a Zeiss ZM as an auto-exposure body. With my aging eyes I like the viewfinder better than any of my M bodies (M3,4,5,6,9).

[philipus]

Thanks for your views, which I appreciate a lot.

 

As for an M7, I haven't seen any below 1100 GBP though most are a few 100 GBP more, whereas the R bodies are much to a lot less expensive. I expect to be able to find an R body and say a 50 Summicron, at least, for that. I don't exclude having an M7 as well at some point (and I also don't exclude that my current thought process results in my not trying the R system).

 

The R8 seems to be larger than a film M, which is the size I would aim for.

 

The R6(.2) seems to be the R-equivalent of the MP but is electrical failure a major problem for the R bodies, even the older ones?

 

cheers

p

[philipus]

I've used an R4 since the mid 80s, and it works well in auto exposure modes. The bodies are bargains now. Manual modes on the R4 are a pain: have to read numbers in two locations and match them. I believe manual on the R7 is much better. R lenses are no longer the bargains they were a few years back.

Instead of an M7 I added a Zeiss ZM as an auto-exposure body. With my aging eyes I like the viewfinder better than any of my M bodies (M3,4,5,6,9).

 

Thank you Tom. My apologies, I posted at the same time as you.

 

The R4 can be had for very, very little (like 80€). Some seem to have a "sticky foam" problem that I am not sure I understand what it is. Plus they also have older electronics. Still trying one that later breaks wouldn't be a major financial loss so perhaps I should consider the early Rs too?

 

The Zeiss ZM is an interesting option too. I hadn't considered that, thank you.

 

EDIT: If the AE is what I am mainly after (which it is), how do the R bodies rate vis-a-vis each other?

cheers

Philip

[sc_rufctr]

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Thanks for your views, which I appreciate a lot.

 

As for an M7, I haven't seen any below 1100 GBP though most are a few 100 GBP more, whereas the R bodies are much to a lot less expensive. I expect to be able to find an R body and say a 50 Summicron, at least, for that. I don't exclude having an M7 as well at some point (and I also don't exclude that my current thought process results in my not trying the R system).

 

The R8 seems to be larger than a film M, which is the size I would aim for.

 

The R6(.2) seems to be the R-equivalent of the MP but is electrical failure a major problem for the R bodies, even the older ones?

 

cheers

p

 

As they get older the R series in general can be problematic but no more so than anything from the other makers.

IMO The R6/6.2 seems to be the most robust electronically because of it's simple light meter.

The only issue I can foresee is that a lot of the older techs that can repair them are retiring.

[spydrxx]

Years ago I got an R3 body thrown in for free with a Leica R lens I purchased. I figured it was a probably a piece of junk. Much to my surprise, aside from exterior cosmetics, it worked remarkably well over the years. Often I took it along with my SL2 instead of my R8. The size and handling was just right for me, the viewfinder was fine and exposure was right on the button.

[philipus]

Today I had the opportunity to visit a dealer who had an R6, an R4s and several Leicaflex SL in stock. It was very interesting and I was impressed by the cameras. I was especially struck by how small the two R bodies were. I had expected them to be larger.

 

I was surprised to see that the R4s had the brightest viewfinder, brighter than the SL. I compared with two SLs and it was the same with both. Granted the image seems larger in the SL, possibly because it has a larger prism? The R4s gives a slightly narrower impression, if that makes sense. But the image in that camera's viewfinder was distinctly brighter and crisper.

 

I am surprised because I have read that the SL viewfinder is among the very best.

 

I was also surprised that the film wind levers on the R6 and the R4s were rather flimsy and that they had to be moved really quite far - further than on an M, it seemed to me - to fully wind a frame.

 

Perhaps the easiest is just to try one of the less expensive R bodies with a lens or two and get a feel for the system and take it from there. Hmm.

 

Any insight on this most gratefully received.

Best

Philip

[wildlightphoto]

I was surprised to see that the R4s had the brightest viewfinder, brighter than the SL. I compared with two SLs and it was the same with both. Granted the image seems larger in the SL, possibly because it has a larger prism? The R4s gives a slightly narrower impression, if that makes sense. But the image in that camera's viewfinder was distinctly brighter and crisper.

 

I am surprised because I have read that the SL viewfinder is among the very best.

 

I suspect the SL viewfinders were showing signs of age. The prisms may have some de-silvering problems. The view through the R4-series viewfinders is somewhat larger than the later R5, R6 and R7 viewfinders, but if your eyes have passed their 40th birthday they might apprecieate the built-in diopter correction of the later bodies.

[philipus]

Thank you Doug. It may very well be the case that these particular SL bodies showed signs of age.

 

In terms of the travel of the winding levers - do the R bodies vary in this respect? The R6 and the R4s that I tried seemed very similar (with long travel) but perhaps not all are the same.

 

Cheers

philip

[jip]

I have a R8, I love it, it's modern very nice finder, great controls and lovely handling. The only SLR that I felt handles better is the latest model S camera. And of course the M models but I don't think you may compare those. So SLR wise the R8/9 are great, and a bargain! Got mine brand new for 325 euros (R8 that is)

 

 

 

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[gvaliquette]

Philip,

 

Your first post says that you want to add an R body because you want to get back to Macro- and Tele- photography. For your first R lens, you should consider the 60mm f2.8 Macro-Elmarit! You can use it as your "normal" lens (50 and 60 mm are close enough) and you get the Macro- as a bonus. The lens, by itself - without the Macro-Adapter, gets down to 1:2! And it is super sharp!

 

Just a suggestion, since you also need a lens to try out your body.

 

Guy

[philipus]

Thank you for your further help.

 

The 60 Macro is one I have considered. It seems to be one heck of a lens. I would love to see some examples of what it can do (not only on film).

 

Jip, thanks for the suggestion but I have deliberately limited myself to R7 and earlier because of the form factor.

[philipus]

Thank you for your further help, I appreciate it a lot.

 

The 60 Macro is one I have considered. It seems to be one heck of a lens. I would love to see some examples of what it can do (not only on film).

 

Jip, thanks for the suggestion but I have deliberately limited myself to R7 and earlier because of the form factor.

 

Philip

[hamey]

Well done Philip.

 

I have two R7's and love them as well as an R8 and R9 and the old magnificent SL to which now is

Retired and sits proudly in my glass cabinet.

 

I have said many times on this forum that I prefer the reflex system to my range finders.

If Leica ever released a R digital Camera I would dump my M240 quicker then a bullet leaving the muzzle.

 

Good luck with your R7.

 

LONG LIVE THE LEICA R SYSTEM

 

Ken.

[Berth]

Thanks for your views, which I appreciate a lot.

 

As for an M7, I haven't seen any below 1100 GBP though most are a few 100 GBP more, whereas the R bodies are much to a lot less expensive. I expect to be able to find an R body and say a 50 Summicron, at least, for that. I don't exclude having an M7 as well at some point (and I also don't exclude that my current thought process results in my not trying the R system).

 

The R8 seems to be larger than a film M, which is the size I would aim for.

 

The R6(.2) seems to be the R-equivalent of the MP but is electrical failure a major problem for the R bodies, even the older ones?

 

cheers

p

 

I've got an R6 I've owned since 1991, and an MP acquired this last December, and do think they're equivalents. Aside from the fact they both have meters that require a battery, electrical failure isn't an issue, they're both purely mechanical. AE is not available on either. If you want to do macro work an R6 would be an excellent choice, either with the R 60mm or the R 100mm macros.

[wildlightphoto]

The 60 Macro is one I have considered. It seems to be one heck of a lens. I would love to see some examples of what it can do (not only on film).

 

photographs by Douglas Herr

photographs by Douglas Herr