90mm Elmarit-M, Street Photography

[DigitalHeMan]

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Nice photos, thanks for sharing.

 

I do agree. I am fond of people photography and would like to catch them with expressions. I find this more interesting. Most often I miss shots with 90mm. However I love this lens for the way it renders and can do selective subject. I am trying hard. Thanks for your suggestions, I will practice this.

This one taken with 90mm.

 

 

Doesn't seem anything wrong with that shot. Very nice

[sblitz]

Very hard to capture fleeting street moment with a 90, things move in and out of range quite quickly. I use it, but usually find the 50mm much better as a "long" street lens. The 28mm, to me, turns the camera into a point-and-shoot which is fine too. 90, it work but you need to be faster than the average bear in seeing and reacting.

[Peter H]

I love my Elmarit-M 90 but don't use it for the type of street photography I enjoy. I can see its place in certain types of photo-journalism, however. But that's another matter.

 

We're all different of course, and there are some very good shots in this thread but looking at them gives me a slight sense of claustrophobia and a wish, even an urge, to have the photo opened out, to see more, to be allowed to breathe, to feel more natural and less photographic.

 

This obviously reflects my taste rather than any inadequacy in the photos. But it does suggest that to take successful street photography with a longer lens requires a very specific visual imagination and feel for subject matter which is quite different from the way I tend to see things.

 

I'm glad other people can make it work, because I don't think I could.

[Jeff S]

….This obviously reflects my taste rather than any inadequacy in the photos. But it does suggest that to take successful street photography with a longer lens requires a very specific visual imagination and feel for subject matter which is quite different from the way I tend to see things.

 

Pretty soon the discussion will 'deteriorate' into seeing and photography as opposed to gear.

 

Can you tell that Saul Leiter was also a painter?

 

Tools for the vision…and task.

 

Jeff

[250swb]

Pretty soon the discussion will 'deteriorate' into seeing and photography as opposed to gear.

 

Jeff

 

So how do you decide what lens to use without 'seeing'? A lens either works for you or it doesn't but to say a thread 'deteriorates' by equating intellectual input with output pretty well cuts across the entire history of photography and art. Explain yourself.

 

Steve

[Jeff S]

So how do you decide what lens to use without 'seeing'? A lens either works for you or it doesn't but to say a thread 'deteriorates' by equating intellectual input with output pretty well cuts across the entire history of photography and art. Explain yourself.

 

It's called humor (sarcasm).

 

That's why I added a funny 'eek' and the Saul Leiter comment to illustrate just how important seeing is, often lost in the gear craze (admittedly in a gear forum). And why I said "tools for the vision." I found Peter's comment refreshing.

 

Gosh I love communicating online. (At least Peter seems to have understood, given his 'thanks'.)

 

Jeff

Edited July 17, 2014 by Jeff S

[rramesh]

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Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't the intent of street to be part of the action rather than shooting from afar?

 

Also I think it's inappropriate to use lenses 90 or longer for street at it would border on snooping.

[rirakuma]

There is a famous photo of a group of men having a conversation on the roof of a building which was taken with a telephoto. I can't find the image or remember the name but I thought it would also be classified as street. I don't think street has to always be up close like Bruce Gilden's photos, you could see some interesting patterns and scenes from afar which can only be captured with a telephoto.

 

EDIT: the image I'm thinking of is Rene Burri's rooftop shot. I don't wanna hotlink it incase I get in trouble.

Edited July 18, 2014 by rirakuma

[DigitalHeMan]

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't the intent of street to be part of the action rather than shooting from afar?

 

Also I think it's inappropriate to use lenses 90 or longer for street at it would border on snooping.

 

 

You can very easily be part of the action with a 90mm. It's not that long and you can shoot a frame filling headshot from around 1.5m away. The difference is whether you want to shoot pure portraits, or environmental portraits. For many, the environmental portrait works better in street as it puts things into context, but there aren't any hard and fast rules.

 

Shooting street with a 200mm or longer is another story though....

[mknaidu11]

I really like the 90 Elmarit-M for street photography. Then again, I am normally a 50mm photographer so 90 comes much more naturally to me than wider focal lengths, including 35mm which I struggle with. I also find that the Elmarit-M has a just long-enough focus throw, plus a very pleasantly damped focusing ring and an aperture ring with very distinct stops (I have the black version).

 

I didn't know Saul Leiter used a 90mm lens but I find him one of the most, if not the most, inspirational street photographers, especially for colour photography. I just love his photographs. I know he's shot b&w too but his colour work is the best. "Early color" is a necessity for any photographer's bookshelf imo.

 

I only shoot film and use this lens outdoors with 100 or 400 film. Shutter speeds of 1/60 are no problems at all. Then again we're all different, both in terms of ability to hand hold steadily and in terms of what we expect from the image. Puts stated in his Chronicle (2012) that this lens "is, even with current standards, an outstandingly good lens” and that at "maximum aperture the lens produces a high-contrast-high-definition picture from center to corner. Stopped down the image quality becomes outstanding. Close-up performance is as good as at infinity.” I certainly agree with this (and incidentally here's his comparison with the current 90 APO among others).

 

Here a few examples for no real reason at all except to say that I like this lens a lot.

 

[ATTACH]447395[/ATTACH]

Entrance to the right | Flickr

Velvia 100F

 

[ATTACH]447396[/ATTACH]

Fork | Flickr

Gold 200

 

[ATTACH]447397[/ATTACH]

Gangster cyclist | Flickr

Superia 400

 

[ATTACH]447398[/ATTACH]

Runner | Flickr

Superia 400

 

[ATTACH]447399[/ATTACH]

Rear view mirror | Flickr

Gold 200

 

 

Thanks for sharing. Nice ones.

 

My problem is while shooting. I complete frame, include subjects and take time to focus. I am not hurry kind of thing. Therefore, just while clicking, there might be a shake appearently by hand movement which might be spoiling the outcome of sharp images. Over a period of a week there are lot of improvements seen, infact I have posted some pictures in street photography forum. Now I wanted to know any one trying it for street and are in same like in my situation.

Edited July 18, 2014 by mknaidu11

[250swb]

Also I think it's inappropriate to use lenses 90 or longer for street at it would border on snooping.

 

So taking a photograph of people who don't know you are there is worse than taking a photograph of people who wish you would go away?

 

Its hard to think of excellent street photographers such as Andre Kertesz, Rene Burri, etc. as snoops, they used longer lenses to reveal the world in a different way, so for example photographing 'the street' from high vantage points reveals a dynamic interaction between people that is lost at ground level.

 

To imply a photographer using a 90mm lens for street work is a snoop is missing the fact that a wide angle lens thrust in the face can reveal people at their worst, or their best, but either way they have no control over what is produced, or the way a photographer would choose to crop or print it. So it's making a high moral point from a potentially low standpoint, photographers can be public enemy #1 whichever lens they use.

 

Steve

[philipus]

Therefore, just while clicking, there might be a shake appearently by hand movement which might be spoiling the outcome of sharp images.

 

Practice makes perfect as they say. Consider also how you press the shutter. Apologies if this is known or obvious but in my experience the best way to press the shutter button is just in front of the front-most joint of the index finger. That causes the least "pull" on the camera as one pushes the button. Don't press straight down with the tip of the finger.

[CaptZoom]

Thanks for sharing. Nice ones.

 

My problem is while shooting. I complete frame, include subjects and take time to focus. I am not hurry kind of thing. Therefore, just while clicking, there might be a shake appearently by hand movement which might be spoiling the outcome of sharp images. Over a period of a week there are lot of improvements seen, infact I have posted some pictures in street photography forum. Now I wanted to know any one trying it for street and are in same like in my situation.

 

 

I checked out a few of your photo posts. It seems you're getting along just fine with the 90mm.

 

Street scenes are dynamic. Taking too long to focus may result in missing the moment. With time and practice you'll get quicker with focusing the 90mm. You may also want to try focus bracketing- fire the shutter when you're close enough to peak focus, fire again as you hit peak, and one afterwards. I rarely do this, but on occasion I do when I want to ensure proper focus (the RF calibration drifts and don't want to get bit my misfocused images). Another thing with focusing, once you're focus is close enough, slightly lean in or out to get peak focus. In time, you'll work out a system that works for you.

Regarding the shutter- learn to squeeze the shutter release rather than pressing it. Match Technical (along with others) make add on buttons for the shutter that help with this. Maybe worth your time to look into them. I forget what they're called, but it's an add-on button that you screw into the treads on the shutter release.

[MarkP]

 

Shooting street with a 200mm or longer is another story though....

 

One can be perceived as changing from street photographer to pervert within 150mm

 

 

I often go down to Bondi Beach to photograph and with a discrete small standard lens no-one could care where I point the camera (with frequent comments such as 'oh isn't that a nice old camera?' . However, I'm not surprised at people's very unfavourable reactions when someone is down there photographing people with large zooms and telephotos.

[mknaidu11]

So taking a photograph of people who don't know you are there is worse than taking a photograph of people who wish you would go away?

 

Its hard to think of excellent street photographers such as Andre Kertesz, Rene Burri, etc. as snoops, they used longer lenses to reveal the world in a different way, so for example photographing 'the street' from high vantage points reveals a dynamic interaction between people that is lost at ground level.

 

To imply a photographer using a 90mm lens for street work is a snoop is missing the fact that a wide angle lens thrust in the face can reveal people at their worst, or their best, but either way they have no control over what is produced, or the way a photographer would choose to crop or print it. So it's making a high moral point from a potentially low standpoint, photographers can be public enemy #1 whichever lens they use.

 

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

Its nothing like hiding yourself from people whom you photograph. Neither its projection of image of the face by way of publishing of the crop other than the entire frame which was intended for.

 

The meaning of the use of 90mm is solely capturing the artistic print of street photography by way of selective focusing on the face or the body language, which expression means an entire new world for the audience. Yes every image is a new world for the artist.

 

This is what photographer intends to do. If anyone using it for the cause, not in art form, rather than capturing it, cropping it and publishing it intentionally in highly objectionable form is definitely worst to the art. This is highly immoral.

 

Therefore using 90mm lens for image capture and intentional immoral use of 90mm lens are two different things.

 

Hope we are discussing the former issue and not the later.

 

Thanks

 

mknaidu11

[mknaidu11]

I checked out a few of your photo posts. It seems you're getting along just fine with the 90mm.

 

Street scenes are dynamic. Taking too long to focus may result in missing the moment. With time and practice you'll get quicker with focusing the 90mm. You may also want to try focus bracketing- fire the shutter when you're close enough to peak focus, fire again as you hit peak, and one afterwards. I rarely do this, but on occasion I do when I want to ensure proper focus (the RF calibration drifts and don't want to get bit my misfocused images). Another thing with focusing, once you're focus is close enough, slightly lean in or out to get peak focus. In time, you'll work out a system that works for you.

Regarding the shutter- learn to squeeze the shutter release rather than pressing it. Match Technical (along with others) make add on buttons for the shutter that help with this. Maybe worth your time to look into them. I forget what they're called, but it's an add-on button that you screw into the treads on the shutter release.

 

I agree with you. Practice makes it easier to use it.

 

The way you have narrated, the same way I had started with 35 cron. Started getting good results with it, within a short span of time.

 

Now switched to 90mm and found its really difficult and not that easy to simply acquire skills as on 35mm cron. It has depth, sharpness & clarity. Mastering within few days/weeks with this lens, seems to be difficult.

 

90mm in fact is superb lens, and wish to use it like 35 cron.

 

Thanks again for the detailed info on the topic.

 

Cheers

mknaidu11

[mknaidu11]

Practice makes perfect as they say. Consider also how you press the shutter. Apologies if this is known or obvious but in my experience the best way to press the shutter button is just in front of the front-most joint of the index finger. That causes the least "pull" on the camera as one pushes the button. Don't press straight down with the tip of the finger.

 

Yes, you are right. The pressure on the camera by the finger is creating a shake.

 

Checked up shots on the table and on the hand held condition. On the table is tech sharp. Otherwise on hand is a shot not upto the level of Elmarit-M.

 

Thanks for the tips.

 

mknaidu11

[Harvard Kiwi]

I'm late to this party but am considering a 90mm for street. While the extra stop on a pre Asph Summicron would help with my low light photography, I think I'm going to go with the Elmarit-M as f2.8 will be enough in most situations on a 90mm, the reviews I have read and watched praise the Elmarit-M for its image and construction, it is slightly smaller and lighter, and because I have found a used one in my country (through an authorised dealer) that is in great condition and at a reasonable price.

Street photography is great because it is accessible in terms of availability of subjects as well as having such a broad category that encompasses many styles. Most rules can be broken depending on the circumstances and artistic license. I find the advice on these forums to be extremely valuable in ascertaining the factors which need to be considered, but the final choice comes down to the photographer, their skill level, style, and intended subject. If one factors all of this into their decision and are happy with the outcome, there isn't really a right or wrong. 

While I'm primarily a 50mm shooter, I'm increasingly interested in street portraiture but find the wider backgrounds distracting. The key to this is to zoom with my feet but I lost a couple of special moments last weekend by approaching my subjects. A great example was an affectionate couple embracing at an intersection who while smiling at me, felt self-conscious and the moment was lost. I realised that getting closer to my subject in another shot would disturb the image and took a photo from a distance but the environment was horrible and an uncropped shot was too busy.

While my cropped shot looks ok, it isn't as great as it would be had I used a greater proportion of my sensor on the part of my image I wanted to retain, hence my interest in the higher focal length.

There are obviously many pitfalls when shooting with a tele lens, particularly for street and it is important to know what you intend to capture and how to use the lens appropriately.

Additional assistance via equipment may also be required. I intend to hand hold my camera during the day but may have to resort to a tripod in low light. For my 90mm, I also intend to use my Visoflex to gain critical focus before the fleeting moments are gone and to be able to see what I'm shooting which can be more difficult in the smaller 90mm framelines.

While I like a minimalist set-up and the rangefinder experience, sometimes I am less concerned with the joy of using a Leica M10 in its purest form and just want to get the shot.