Summicron 50mm F:2,0 Dual Range

[jbl]

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I agree with everything you say here :-).

 

I’m really interested in having one of these, but I firmly believe in shooting with lenses rather than letting them sit on the shelf and collect dust. I have a Noctilux 1.2 that I actively shoot with.

 

I’m interesting in getting the DR model for multiple reasons, I like how it looks, I like the build, I like the story, I’m interested in experiencing the glass. That said, I’m basically all digital at this point (MM and M240) and I would want to use the lens as an actual lens and that means being able to focus beyond 4m. Karmically, would it be bad to get the lens modified?

 

With that also, should I pursue a copy with the close-focus eyes even though they’d never actually be used?

 

-jbl

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[A miller]

I can't tell you for sure, but if I were you I would be concerned that you would not be allowed into Leica heaven and you will not be allowed to shoot any of your Leica gear there.

 

The goggles are needed to activate the close range focusing

[xalo]

I agree with everything you say here :-).

 

I’m really interested in having one of these, but I firmly believe in shooting with lenses rather than letting them sit on the shelf and collect dust. I have a Noctilux 1.2 that I actively shoot with.

 

I’m interesting in getting the DR model for multiple reasons, I like how it looks, I like the build, I like the story, I’m interested in experiencing the glass. That said, I’m basically all digital at this point (MM and M240) and I would want to use the lens as an actual lens and that means being able to focus beyond 4m. Karmically, would it be bad to get the lens modified?

 

With that also, should I pursue a copy with the close-focus eyes even though they’d never actually be used?

 

-jbl

 

Well, if you consider the options, you could

- use the same optical cell (as I just learned from adam) to experience the glass in a different mount;

- use Luigi's option with that same cell to get close;

- get any M film body to use a 50 DR with as intended (excellent reason!).

 

If you are interested enough in this lens' history, particularities, strength and limitations to buy one — why change it into something that it is not? What I mean is, if you are modifying it irreversibly, it may no longer be what you initially desired. Will that be satisfying?

 

As said, you can take an utilitarian approach to it, but there are alternatives.

 

Alexander

[carlos.paula]

Particularly, I hate these modifications. I agree with Luigi because I am a Leitz products collector, too. In my other collection activity, antique and military firearms, I always preserve the originality and, when possible, choose carefully every especimen before buy. All my Leitz gadgets are originals and near mint condition. The only drawback in my collection is a 90mm Elmar collapsible, in perfect cosmetic condition, but, unfortunately, with his front element showing several scratches. I bought it because these lenses are difficult to find here, and the price was excellent. I see absolutely no problem in using the DR in modern mirrorless cameras, even with the original notch in the focus control.

[xalo]

Clearly people are entitled to do as they please, and I'll never think of anyone less because of a silly thing like this.

 

HOWEVER:

I view this lens as a special piece of German history and culture...

- snip -

As you can tell, for me it's all about emotions and sentimental considerations...

 

Adam, quite a statement. This lens and much other Leica gear quite certainly represents a — perhaps (stereo)typically German — cultural expression. There is this word Ingenieurskunst or the 'art of engineering' that came to my mind.

 

Alexander

[A miller]

Adam, quite a statement. This lens and much other Leica gear quite certainly represents a — perhaps (stereo)typically German — cultural expression. There is this word Ingenieurskunst or the 'art of engineering' that came to my mind.

 

Alexander

 

Well put, Alexander. While it's hard for a yankee like me to pronouce, I do hear what you are saying and agree

 

Never thought of myself as an "art" collector....

[jbl]

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The goggles are needed to activate the close range focusing

 

Oh, I didn’t know that. So it’s the twist of the lens *and* the goggles that trigger it?

 

-jbl

[A miller]

Oh, I didn’t know that. So it’s the twist of the lens *and* the goggles that trigger it?

 

-jbl

 

I'm clearly not up on all the tricks of the trade here. But the straightforward manner of activating the close range focus feature is to first pull and turn the focus ring on the other end of the middle nub, and then insert the goggles, which hold down a pin which releases the close range focus ring.

 

Here are some results with the close range feature of this lens with some old fashioned gear: an M3, some fuji slide film and a polarizing filter.

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/nature-wildlife/290887-some-fuji-slide-film-shots-flowers.html

 

(Alexander - apologies for imposing this on your again as I recall you kindly commented on this thread a year or so ago when I initially posted this )

[jbl]

I think I’m probably going to end up getting rejected from Mandler Heaven by getting one of these and modifying it, in the interest of shooting.

 

I got a Noct 1.2 out of a collection and onto a camera so maybe it’ll balance out at the end.

 

I’m sorry, Luigi.

 

-jbl

[Shac]

As the OP said in a previous post (and I use the same technique) - you don't need the goggles to activate focus, pull out and turn beyond the tab, then just depress the ball-bearing and turn the focus. This will work on the M240 (w LV) or others such as the Sony's - absolutely no need to deface such a wonderful piece of engineering by machining off the tab

[jbl]

But my understanding is that you have to machine off the close focus cam in order to get beyond 4m in the normal range.

[A miller]

But my understanding is that you have to machine off the close focus cam in order to get beyond 4m in the normal range.

 

JBL - I thought you might be interested to know that the DR cron works perfectly on the new Leica T using the M mount. I just stopped by the Leica store in SOHO and I happened to have my M3 and DR and I was able to try it out. I even had my goggles for the lens with me and they slipped right into the lens and the close range focus worked flawlessly. The EVF was attached to the camera and the close range focus was clear as a bell. Very cool.

[jbl]

That's good to know. The jury is still out for me on the T, though I'm leaning no right now.

 

I did end up getting a DR and am planning to send it off to DAG right away. Sorry, Luigi. I saved a Noctilux 1.2, I'm hoping this balances it out.

[xalo]

If you're decided, try to make it worthwhile.

I filed down the rear shroud of my R 19mm II to fit an Eos 5D and (poorly) filed the flange of a M-Rokkor 40mm to bring up 35mm framelines. I look at them differently now and think that the damage should at least lead to pictures more meaningful than my desire to see if I could get it to work. Not that I would really have succeeded as of yet, but it's a motivation.

[A miller]

JBL - I can't say that I follow your logic - even your emotional logic - on this one given that you could have purchased a rigid lens and obtained the exact same optics. It is on the very same level in terms of prestige and pride as the DR. To me, I'd rather have an unmodified rigid cron than a modified DR. But, as Alexander said, make the most of your new purchase and use it is great health and joy!

[luigi bertolotti]

But my understanding is that you have to machine off the close focus cam in order to get beyond 4m in the normal range.

 

You are right... the cam is also responsible for the impossibility to mount the DR on M240 (and M8 M9 too) : the "mouth" of digital Ms is narrower than the film Ms , with some "intrusions" in the theoric "cylindric space" flange to sensor, and the cam does interfere with them (issue someway similar to what happens to some Summilux 35 preasph)

 

this does not happen if you set the DR to short distances (0,5 to 1 m) and THEN mount it on M240... when so, it focuses correctly, and goggles do fit.

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That's why I think is a pity to have it machined... if you want to use it at short distances, you can (with VF/RF), if you want to go at even shorter distances, add a simple OUFRO (or chinese copy) and no problem of mounting (of course, use LV/EVF) ; only, you CANNOT mount and use it at normal ranges.... and you must have another 50... . If you file out the cam, you can mount it on M240 and focus at short distances with LV/EVF only, and use VF/RF only at normal distances... for me, this doesn't worth the destruction of originality.

 

A miller is right... DR is optically identical to the other Summicron of the era... according to a sort of "urban legend" of the times, the glasses for the DR were all "first choice"... the manufacturing tolerances were "more strict"... I think those are legends and no more : but it is true the all the DR are 50mm EXACTLY...they haven't the variations (51,6 51,9 52,2...) that are present on normal Summicrons, and engraved with their code at the base of the barrel

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Luigi,

 

I would think that the lenses with the 1/10th's of a millimeter engraved on them were just as exactly calibrated as lenses without the 1/10th's engraved.

 

There is no "accuracy" difference if 2 lenses have slightly different focal lengths & these differences are known & appropriate adjustments are made.

 

Beside that: If the actual focal length was not written on the outside of the barrel: Does that mean that it was also not written inside the assemby? As it is, along with the serial number, on some other focal length lenses.

 

It is possible that the exterior numbers might have been left off for clarity's sake, on an already complexly engraved barrel.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[luigi bertolotti]

Hello Michael, surely the Summicrons with the "variations" in focal length were correctly calibrated at factory, and the net differences of FL are completely negligible... I just wanted to point that in the DR those variations aren't present : indeed, the s/n of the lens is engraved also on the mount of the DR but the effective focal length is NOT hand scratched on the inner barrel of the lenshead, as it is on the non DR Summicrons : I am rather sure of this.

 

(btw, in my previous post I wrote an unprecise statement : focal length of the DR is not exactly 50mm... it is 51.9mm which is the "nominal" FL of the Summicron design... it was late evening (*) and didn't remember this detail at the moment...)

 

(*) and took also a bit too quickly the picture of my DR... which isn't so clean... Summarit 75 on my M8, at f 2,8, handheld, low light... ISO 640...cropped jpg out of camera... not the best setting for photo of gear (and, btw, most of the pics of my Leitz items ARE taken with THAT Summicron DR... )

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[A miller]

Given that this thread has distressed so much from the original question posed, I'm sharing FWIW a link to some close up head shots of random New Yorkers that I took this past Sunday with my M3 and portra 400.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/332809-up-close-personal-w-some-new.html

[jbl]

Nice stuff. I admire the confidence to shoot strangers like that. Wish I had an easier time with it.

 

-jbl