Will the M Monochrom be updated?

[A miller]

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Well, Georg, in addition to having the admirable quality of understanding and acceptance of your situations, you also apprently bought an Omega watch that doesn't clip highlights easily :)

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Jeff S]

It would be very surprising to me if a new mm was announced this Sept. It would mark the quickest update of an M model in recent history. Given Leica's history of making things to last, it would only logically follow that a new MM would not be intended to replace the current model. If it is, it will burn a lot of people

 

Well, the M8.2 improved several things on the M8 (for some people), two years later, and the MM will be two years old this year.

 

As far as highlights, just think of the MM like slide film; responsibility for exposure is not up to the camera.

 

And if you feel compelled to trade the camera in on the new model, the cost will probably be in the neighborhood of the $1-2k that you apparently find reasonable for other cameras, not another $8k.

 

Rather than being bummed, I suspect many people will be glad that they have the last of the CCD-based Monochroms, if that's the plan.

 

In any case you'll still have a wonderful camera, that still works.

 

Feel better now?

 

Jeff

[A miller]

Nope. I guess I will be the only sore loser on the planet if in fact it crystalizes.

[leicaphilia]

I'll be happy to buy an obsolete MM from anyone selling at a great discount.

[jaapv]

 

There is really only one slight caveat: as much as I love the MM, one of the areas that could be improved is its DR and senstivity to clipped highlights. I made my humongus investment in the MM on the assumption that this is as good as Leica can do with its current (or foreseable future) technology and know-how. To see a new model just a year or so after the MMs started steadily flowing into stores with a markedly better DR that materially improves the tendency for clipped highlights (to be more like real negative film and less like positive film), would really piss me off.

I would say DR is pretty good; the shadows seem to last forever. It is just a matter of exposure technique…

It is very doubtful that any monochrome camera would show different behavior in the highlights. The simple reason is that there is just one channel. In a Bayer camera there are always one or two other colour channels to extrapolate from - that is until you have overexposed the three of them.

And that ain’t gonna change.

[A miller]

I guess we'll see, Jaap.

[mjh]

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The article says it will be announced in photokina in september. How can leicarumors be sure of that?

Anyone professing to know what Leica will announce in four months time is either God or a liar. (For what it’s worth I didn’t know what exactly Leica would announce last Thursday.)

[MarkP]

>> A miller

 

I can understand you perfectly well, because I bought an OMEGA watch two years ago and learned

that they came up with a new model 4.5 months later. Since it was a + EUR 4,000 affair I was furious

but even after an intense research, I didn´t find somebody else to blame but me.

 

And since the thing is still VERY beautiful and is working perfectly, I decided, to give it a further

chance and it still supplies me with the perfect time.

 

Couldn´t ask for more, I now live with it.

 

 

Regards

GEORG

 

And of course the new model tells time so much better so you will need to update

 

 

This is the problem with the watch analogy. An expensive, or newer model watch usually does not perform it's core function of timekeeping any better than a cheap one. Nor does the new model n fact a $5 quartz watch is probably more accurate than a $40K Swiss extravaganza. However, a more expensive camera generally produces technically better images.

[Jeff S]

Well, it looks like the rumor of a new Monochrom is a false alarm…for now.

 

The Leica Blog clarifies that the M230 is merely the name for stainless model in the 100th Edition.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2014/05/leica-m-monochrom-type-230-leica-m-monochrom-silver-chrome/

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

Well, it would have been quite surprising, as Leica clearly implied at the launch that they would be looking at longer upgrade cycles for this particular series.

[wolfloid]

"There is really only one slight caveat: as much as I love the MM, one of the areas that could be improved is its DR and senstivity to clipped highlights. I made my humongus investment in the MM on the assumption that this is as good as Leica can do with its current (or foreseable future) technology and know-how."

 

I'd agree with you that it would be unusual, but I don't agree either that it obsoletes the older Monochrom or that a manafacturer has any obligtion to worry about improving their models.

 

It makes complete sense for Leica to build the new Monochrom on the newer platform for very obvious reasons - quieter shutter, better viewfinder, live view to check focus, better screen etc. etc. and for resons of economy of platforms. This potential upgrade should have been obvious to anyone buying a Monochrom based on the M9.

 

I also simply do not understand your assumption that the MM was the best they can do with its forseeable future technology, given that the M240 already exists. Is that based on anything other than your wishful thinking having plumped down a pile of cash? What about others who are waiting for something more refined, and want an MM based on the newer body - don't they get a say? Obviously, if Leica wants to sell more cameras they will improve them as soon and as often as they can at the least expense to themselves. No one sells anything technological with a guarantee that they won't update until you have had your money's worth from it.

[A miller]

The "technological improvements" to which I am referring are purely those in the sensor that might gain the little improvements that one could conceivably dream up for this wonderful camera, namely a little better dynamic range, and if this isn't the right term, then use whatever term of art that refers to the preservation of more of the 8-9 zones as does film rather than being quick to clip these zones.

 

The features to which you refer, LV, quiet shutter , battery life, are, to me, mere "creature comforts." They don't go to the quality of the output. My investment wasn't predicated on there being a finite set of creature comforts for a set period of time. It was all about picture quality. To focus this discussion on creature comforts falls prey to the same fallacy as comparing an expensive rangefinder with an expensive watch (which we all know isn't purchased for its time-telling accuracy, but rather how it looks, what its made of, and how it makes one feel).

 

I think Jaap's earlier post, in which he pointed out Leica's implicit intention of having longer upgrade cycles of the monochrome, in a way validates my point and emotions about this topic.

[timde]

Well, it would have been quite surprising, as Leica clearly implied at the launch that they would be looking at longer upgrade cycles for this particular series.

 

IIRC their sales figures exceeded expectations at launch by a factor of 3. Could it be that some parts are no longer being made and Leica needs to update the platform earlier than originally planed? Quite a few electronic parts on that camera are _old_.

[Jeff S]

The features to which you refer, LV, quiet shutter , battery life, are, to me, mere "creature comforts." They don't go to the quality of the output.

 

 

... in a way validates my point and emotions about this topic.

 

As far as 'creature comforts', I find various changes to the M240 quite functional…longer battery life, 2 m frame lines for better viewing, better RF for focusing, faster processor that hasn't slowed or locked up, improved options for focusing longer lenses, LV that offers a much improved way to check camera/lens focus calibration, better weather sealing for more photo opportunities, a better shutter release and shutter dial feel, and yes, a more film-M like experience IMO with the quiet shutter re-cock.

 

This may mean nothing to some; for others it might (for better or worse). To each his/her own.

 

And last I checked the M240 also has a different sensor and MP count than the M9, so something other than 'creature comforts' changed.

 

At Photokina 2012, just after release of the MM, here's what Stefan Daniel said in an interview…

 

"Question: Will the M-Monochrom remain part of the M-System for the foreseeable future?

 

Stefan Daniel: We want to keep the series of that type. The Monochrom is very successful and we can imagine that there might be a Monochrom variant of the new model. The camera is addictive."

No mention of timing.

 

In any event, it's just a camera. Emotions are up to you, as are quality of pics (and, btw, exposure).

 

Jeff

[philipus]

Adam's comment above abouve 8-9 zones made me think of something I've wondered about in the context of the Monochrom. One of the things I dislike about digital is that highlights clip; film retains more detail in corresponding zones, it seems, which gives the images more "life" (for lack of a better word).

 

Let's see if I can phrase this at all intelligibly - would the fact that the Monochrom has a seemingly endless (as I understand it) well of information in the darker zones mean that it is possible to expose photographs in such a way that the brighter zones are quite far from the clip point?

 

I know about exposing to the left etc. I guess I am basically wondering if one can be a bit more extreme so as to retain even more in the highlights while still being able to find detail in the shadows.

[A miller]

Jeff - agree entirely on the "horses for courses" point

Philipus - you have made an interesting point and one that has been discussed ad naseum on this forum. There is a school of thought that argues for "exposure to the left" technique given the resolve of the shadow details. Then there are others who argue that all one needs to do is "expose correctly." I generally agree with the latter but think that there are certain circumstances in which the former is more appropriate - probably along the lines of how one would expose with slide film.

[jaapv]

Yes - that is indeed the way - and the reason the camera has a raw histogram with “zone system” divisions.

[Jeff S]

Jeff - entire entirely on the "horses for courses" point

Philipus - you have made an interesting point and one that has been discussed ad naseum on this forum. There is a school of thought that argues for "exposure to the left" technique given the resolve of the shadow details. Then there are others who argue that all one needs to do is "expose correctly." I generally agree with the latter but think that there are certain circumstances in which the former is more appropriate - probably along the lines of how one would expose with slide film.

 

So what's the big deal then about highlights? Seems as though you'd like a camera with the added creature comfort of more exposure flexibility…or would that be horses for courses?

 

Jeff

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[A miller]

To me, any feature that avoids the premature clipping of zones 8 and 9 is most certainly not a creature comfort. Fact is the caera is touted as a digital black and white film camera, but the wrt highlights the sensor acts more like a digital slide film camera. Any improvement that would make the camera act more like regular negative film wrt the highlights will be a huge improvement akin to going from an M8 to an M9...

[Jeff S]

To me...

 

Yep, says it all.

 

Jeff