Will the M Monochrom be updated?

[philipus]

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I'm firmly a film shooter, but during a recent trip to London and a resulting meetup with very friendly and welcoming fellow Leica photographers I tried the Monochrom for the first time (thanks John). It was really a very nice camera, I felt.

 

I am curious to know if there are any plans on updating the Monochrom with a more silent shutter à la M (240)? Since I'm used to film Ms I did find the Monochrom's shutter a little bit too loud, much like the M9 which I tried once (which, I guess, makes sense since the Monochrom is based on the M9, no?). Or is this likely not possible due to the architecture of the camera?

 

Thanks in advance

Philip

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[jcraf]

Thanks Philip

It was a pleasure. I agree about the MM (M9) shutter - sounds like a clockwork toy compared to the discreet 'snick' of the M240 (and film Ms of course).

 

Since the MM, bar sensor. Is as you say an M9, I doubt anything will happen regarding upgrade until we see a new MM Typ 240 (or whatever). But whatever happens I think the current CCD MM will become a classic.

 

Regards

[Peter H]

I've been so convinced by over a year's use of the M that is is a genuine and significant upgrade over the M9,(though it took a little while to learn how to use its benefits, including what I consider to be an improved sensor) that whilst I agree that the MM will be regarded as a classic, I fully expect that an M240M will be an even better camera.

[GaryMulcahey]

I could live with an upgraded MM body. I don't need video but a better screen, processor, and battery life would be welcome. I just don't want a CMOS B&W sensor. This sensor in the current MM at 18 megapixel is just the ticket. Closest thing to B&W film and I fall I love with it the more I use it.

 

G

[Jeff S]

I am curious to know if there are any plans on updating the Monochrom with a more silent shutter à la M (240)?

 

This is what Stefan Daniel said at Photokina 2012….

 

"Question: Will the M-Monochrom remain part of the M-System for the foreseeable future?

 

Stefan Daniel: We want to keep the series of that type. The Monochrom is very successful and we can imagine that there might be a Monochrom variant of the new model. The camera is addictive."

 

So, it seems that chances for a Monochrom based on the new M platform is good. There have been other threads here with discussion about it.

 

I agree about the M shutter difference, not just the sound but the improved release mechanism, and that would be a nice difference for me. [it was big on my M wish list long before its release, and now I'm spoiled by it.] But so would the improved RF, bigger battery, faster processor, weather sealing and other M benefits. And, if it happens, I'm sure there will be lots of debate between the current and new model concerning CMOS and LV (if those are part of it), pixels, and all the other stuff people like to argue.

 

Jeff

[sanyasi]

I have a neighbor who is holding out for an updated MM. He was hoping for a Spring 2014 release. I was speaking with a dealer who is aware of his interest. Although Leica seems to be pretty tight-lipped, the dealer seemed to think that an upgrade to the MM was unlikely in 2014. But who knows?

[A miller]

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HI Philip - Great question. My instinct (which is based on hot air) is that any future models would be based on a CMOS sensor rather than a CCD (i.e., the days of CCD sensors in new Leica digital cameras are gone). If true, much of the differences b/n the existing model and new model would be one of extra features, such as live view, video, etc, as with the M (240) vs. M9.

 

That might cause the original MM to garner a "cult" following, as the M9 appears to be garnering, as people will look for the older model for the sensor and simplicity.

 

So even if a new model is released, it is unclear whether it would shift all attention and appeal away from the original MM.

 

As for the shutter speed, I will say quite unapologetically that I love it! I think it sounds cool! And as one who roams the streets of NYC in all sorts of discreet places such as subways, alleys and crowded corners, I am not bothered one bit by the sound of the shutter.

 

In fact, as an avid user of an M3, I can tell you that I do not think the M3 is discreet. Although it is a single click, it is a very loud click, particularly in those discreet situations where you really want to be discreet. It is not subdued at all in my view. It's perfectly fine, and I deal with it. But I don't think that the variance in shutter discreetness is material enough to make it a consideration whatsoever.

 

I'm telling you, try to like the shutter sound. Watch the video of Jacob Aue Sobol

traveling through Russia and China. Listen to how it sounds from a bystander's perspective. I may be off my rocker, but it has really grown on me!

Arrivals and Departures with Jacob Aue Sobol: Episode 6 – The Final Episode on Vimeo

 

Good luck with your analysis!

 

Adam

[Jeff S]

As for the shutter speed, I will say quite unapologetically that I love it! I think it sounds cool! And as one who roams the streets of NYC in all sorts of discreet places such as subways, alleys and crowded corners, I am not bothered one bit by the sound of the shutter.

 

In fact, as an avid user of an M3, I can tell you that I do not think the M3 is discreet. Although it is a single click, it is a very loud click, particularly in those discreet situations where you really want to be discreet. It is not subdued at all in my view. It's perfectly fine, and I deal with it. But I don't think that the variance in shutter discreetness is material enough to make it a consideration whatsoever.

 

The issue is not about the shutter sound….that is what it is, and not terribly different among film or digital M cameras….it's the obnoxious shutter re-cock motor whirr that annoys in every digital M until the M 240. The discreet setting only delays the inevitable.

 

In addition to the sound improvement relative to other digital Ms, the shutter release mechanism is different and smoother. I got used to my M8.2, which is as quiet or quieter than the M9 (or MM), but the M240 is in another league in smoothness and sound.

 

This of course won't matter a twit as far as pics, but it's a nice handling characteristic for those who care about such things. Some do, some don't.

 

Jeff

[A miller]

Clearly a very subjective matter.

 

I have briefly shot with an M(240) and thought the views expressed regarding the meaningful improvement in shutter sound were grossly exaggerated. Just my own view.

 

Perhaps it's the fact that I live in Manhattan and am used to loud explosive noises at just about every hour of the day and night.

[Jeff S]

There is no meaningful improvement in the shutter sound per se. It's what happens after the click. As I said, some don't care, but the difference is clear, even in NY.

 

Jeff

[tookaphotoof]

I have a neighbor who is holding out for an updated MM. He was hoping for a Spring 2014 release. I was speaking with a dealer who is aware of his interest. Although Leica seems to be pretty tight-lipped, the dealer seemed to think that an upgrade to the MM was unlikely in 2014. But who knows?

 

He can hope and keep waiting, but in the end, keep waiting does mean you'll be missing photographs the way you want them to be.

If the shutter of the MM is comparable with the M8.2 I wouldn't have a problem with it myself.

[A miller]

There is no meaningful improvement in the shutter sound per se. It's what happens after the click. As I said, some don't care, but the difference is clear, even in NY.

 

Jeff

 

Gotcha, Jeff. To be clear, though, my views are with regard to the shutter sound and any sounds relating to or otherwise arising from the depressing of the shutter, whether during, after or way after as a result of any echos that there may be.

 

I love it all!

 

:D:D

[Jeff S]

I love it all!

 

Then you'll love this. Just bookmark the link and hit 'play' whenever the mood strikes.

 

Jeff

[A miller]

Very funny Jeff. That was spot on.

If it was the unique MM or M9 shutter, I might be tempted to pay the $12.80 asking price

[philipus]

Thanks very much for the insightful answers. I'm very ill-informed about digital Ms generally so it is very interesting to hear the views of those who use a particular camera.

 

I remember trying the M240 at photokina and being quite impressed by the shutter mechanism. I can relate to this being a subjective matter, like with so many aspects of photography and camera equipment. My M6 has a less soft shutter sound than my M4, for instance, but I happily use the M6 more than the M4.

 

Adam, thank you for linking to that video which I have now watched. The sound wasn't very intrusive at all. In fact, now that I heard it repeated several times in that clip, I seem to remember that the sound I heard when I shot a few frames with John's MM, was slightly different - less metallic? - than the M9 I once tried (thanks Geoff). Could that be or is it an identical sound on these cameras?

 

Cheers

Philip

[A miller]

Hi Philip - I don't really notice a meaningful difference b/n my MM and M9. I will say, though, that I notice a difference in shutter noise depending on what ISO and aperture I use. It seems that I get a more pronounced "!@#curpung!@#" at wider apertures. This is all elegant background noise to me, so I can't really say that I have paid careful attention enough to notice the precise difference. But I have noticed it. The more pronounced !@#curpunges!@# almost sound like a tiny snippet of glass shattering.

 

Call me crazy!! Perhaps it's the noises in my head

[sblitz]

shutter noise does change with speed, true on the m9, m4, and m6 .... the 1/125s sound on the m4 will have you taking pictures like crazy, it is sweet poetry. as for the point of this thread, i would think there will be a MM based on the M240 in year or so, as a way to boost sales. in the base camera much as it did for the m9. will it better or worse? those arguments help keep the forum going (check the T section :-) )

[philipus]

shutter noise does change with speed, true on the m9, m4, and m6 .... the 1/125s sound on the m4 will have you taking pictures like crazy, it is sweet poetry

 

Thanks Steve, that really shows how personal this is. To my ears, 1/50 (the flash) has always been my favourite speed

 

I will say, though, that I notice a difference in shutter noise depending on what ISO and aperture I use.

 

Now this is interesting - what could be the reason for this?

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[sanyasi]

He can hope and keep waiting, but in the end, keep waiting does mean you'll be missing photographs the way you want them to be.

 

That is what I tell him. There is always another bus coming in the world of technology, so if you wait, you never get anyplace.

[250swb]

, I seem to remember that the sound I heard when I shot a few frames with John's MM, was slightly different - less metallic? - than the M9 I once tried (thanks Geoff). Could that be or is it an identical sound on these cameras?

 

The shutter sound and overall re-cocking sound is identical for the M9 and MM, but is clearly altered in perception by shutter speed and perhaps even how run in the camera is.

 

It's true the M's shutter mechanism makes a more pleasant sound compared with an M9/MM, but which it in itself is a hideous noise compared with a film M. So I don't see much logic in thinking the clunk of an M going off is a paragon of gentle harmonic's. Using an MM I'd say if you were concentrating on taking pictures the associated noise is insignificant compared to the work at hand, and in any sort of noisy environment like a street anybody three feet away from an MM grinding its gears won't hear it anyway, so what's the fuss about?

 

As regards waiting for an updated MM I think you have to weigh up if you need to make B&W pictures now, or if it can wait. If it can wait why not wait for the one after next, which will be even better than one based on the M240?

 

Steve