Medium Format Vs. 35 MM

[rfisher]

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Friendliest greetings! Can someone help me? I’m trying to figure out what kind of camera I should invest in if I want to aspire to “coffee-table” sized books. You need a certain resolution (or whatever the tech term is) so that photos, when blown up to 11 inches square, or perhaps a bit smaller, will “hold” and not become grainy. Medium Format may be the way to go but I’m not sure I can afford such a system. Does anyone know if a 35 mm camera can give you slides that will survive being blown up to 11 inches square? Vivian Russell, author/photographer, noted that she used a Leica R5 for her beautiful photos in her Edith Wharton’s Italian Gardens (1997, Bulfinch), but I can’t even figure out if a Leica R5 is a 35 mm or a medium-format. And I guess R5 is now a thing of the past and has been replaced by….? Can anyone steer me in the right direction and recommend a camera that would be good for a “beginner” who dreams big. I have published one book of photos, Escape to the Amalfi Coast (1999), but the dimensions of that book were only 6 by 6 so a 35 mm camera was no problem. A thousand thanks for any advice! April 26, 2007

[telewatt]

Welcome Robert,

 

..what do you like to do ?...normaly you can print a 35mm picture in this size...

 

If you look at books of ERWIN FIEGER , for me one of the best color Photographer of all time did a lot of books (11 x 15 inch) with double size pictures! and they look great!..all with the Leicaflex on slides.....

 

regards,

Jan

[Overgaard]

R5 is now the R9 which is a 35 mm SLR (Single Lens Reflex) whereas the Leica M is RF (Range Finder) cameras.

 

Difference is you look through the lens in an SLR and through an 'external' range finder on the Leica M.

 

The digital file size of a 11 inch wide photo should be 3300 dpi wide in total which is ca. a 7 MP (MegaPixel) camera - or a scanning of a slide by using a 2900 DPI scanner or better.

 

So a setup can be a Leica slide film camera like R9, M7 og the CM. Dpends what you want to do. And then a professional scan of the photos you select. Or that you acquire for example a Nikon V Coolscan slide scanner that will scan above the size you need.

 

The Leica CM is a very small point-and-shoot camera, very silent, with autofocus and a 'sharp-as-hell' 40mm lens. Meaning the lens will capture very much the same 'angle' as you view with the eye. It further has a small flash that you as a general rule should never use. But in case there IS no light, you have the flash.

 

Leica M is a bit larger but still a small camera, sturdy enought to go to war with and you can change the lenses to what you need an want.

 

Leica R9 is a professional 'press camera' that you can't stufff away in a pocket. Like the M you can change lenses and you have the benefit that you see what the picture will be like in the viewfinder as you look through the lens. It further has a very reliable lightmetaer so that your exposures will be perfect.

 

Other than that, there is the digital Leicas. The Leica M8 is the digital version of the M7 (said in a simple manner).

 

The DMR digital back can be attached to the Leica R making it into a digital camera besides a film camera (you simpley change the film back to digital back or the opposite whenever you need one or the other).

 

And then there is the Leica Digilux 3 with 10 MP files as well as - actually - the very small new Leica digital cameras that also has 10 MP files.

 

 

You should go to the http://www.leica-camera.us site and study the different cameras under PHOTOGRAPHY and see which you feel suit you best - and then go and check that or those out in a store.

 

Hope this was a helpful "Leica Expert A-Z in 15 seconds"

[Johannes Knightworth]

You say you will not be to afford medium Format .... A good MF setup will certainly be cheaper than any good leica setup, and you have a choice of brands to choose from.

 

personally I would go for 6x7 or even 6x9, you still have the possibility to crop and maintain quality at the mentioned sizes, although while writing this I would say that a 6x6 is ok too.

[wda]

Robert,

 

Welcome to one of the most helpful and friendliest forums I know.

 

Your requirement is well specified apart from telling us the nature of your intended photography. A slr (single lens reflex) such as the R5 your mentioned is better for close up photography such as flowers, insects or small collector's objects. It is also better if you need telephoto lenses with a long reach (such as for birds from hides etc).

 

For travel photography any of the other cameras mentioned would work for you, depending on your ability to carry lots or little equipment with you. I think MF is over-kill for the sizes you specify. It is also more bulky and heavier. I would tend to go for a Leica M system of which there is a wide choice of new or recent models. Buy from a respected dealer, preferably one you can visit, so that you can handle the kit and satisfy yourself that it is likely to work for you. Remember, film is not extinct: for many people it is still superior. However, modern digital compact cameras of 7 to 10 mp might also be an option.

 

Tell us more about your intended subjects and we can refine our help to you.

 

David

[zapp]

I think the problem is not the camera you want to use, but the kind of images you want to take. Medium format cameras are typically bulkier and heavier than 35 mm cameras. Both systems can be used for 11 inch square images. If you want to go even larger and if you intend using a tripod, try medium format. Since most people try getting rid of medium format equipment, it is dead cheap even NEW it is often on sale. If you want something small as your camera, something that can do macro and a camera to carry around, a 35 mm camera will work fine. Resolution wise you can get more detail (clarity) from a digital than from a 35 mm camera. Even 12 Megapixel cameras can compete with 6x4.5 cameras these days, but the demands on the equipment are much higher in the digital workflow, and cost will be more than for a mdium format camera.

[frc]

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Disagree!

 

Hi res scan made of 6 x 4.5 are of such quality that a 12 Mp digi can not ever match the resolution.

Very important when printing A3 or larger ( this means skip the subject in this context )

But for the size of print required here a 35 mm or 10 Mp will do.

 

Use low iso to reduce grain or noise.

Use slide film if scanning is the desired workflow.

Use MF if you like the tranquility of the tripod mounted top view camera.

 

Don't spill coffee over your books;-)

[Leicamateur]

Hi Robert,

 

I also tend to say 35mm filmcamera, be it SLR or Rangefinder (M series) is well suited for what you want to do.

The image quality you will get from Leica equipment is superior and if you treat your camera and lenses well you can enjoy them for decades.

 

I wouldn't buy a Leica V-Lux or D-Lux 3 though, I think if you want to achieve profesional photos (and I'd say that's necessary for a book which wants to get published) you want to achieve the best possible image quality.

 

If you want to go digital with Leica use M8 (rangefinder) or R8/R9 with DMR (SLR)... but both setups will be quite expensive.

Buy a M7 (rangefinder) film or R8/R9 (SLR) filmcamera with some useful Leica lenses (whatever lenses are best suited for the kind of photos you want to do), use high quality slidefilm (Fuji Velvia 100 etc.) and scan the slides with a high quality slidescanner as mentioned here already or go to a profesional lab and let them do the scanning.

 

If these setups are still too expensive for you think about getting same second hand. If even that is over your budget there is one last option which is quite affordable.

Either a Leica Digilux 3 (digital SLR) or the counterpart Panasonic DMC-L1. Both are supposed to have a very good picture quality, both use the same high quality Leica lens. You can go for the Panasonic which is much cheaper than the Leica one, if you can live without the red point.

 

Hope this was not too confusing.

[stunsworth]

Hi Robert. I see that you're not sure if you can afford a MF camera - so I guess an M8 or R8/9 is also out of the question :-). As has been mentioned elsewhere MF prices are very low at the moment. For example a UK dealer has a Mamiya 330 twin lens reflex camera for sale at the equivalent of $300. But the real question has to be what sort of photographs do you have in mind? Do you have any current examples of what you are trying to achieve?

[ejcaliguri@comcast.net]

I tend to agree with marc - he seems spot on. One thing to consider however is WHAT you are shooting (Landscapes perchance?) Then - Medium to - dare I say - 4" x 5" format will knock you over.

 

Medium format equipment, used film that is (Hasselblad V series and the Mamiya are extraordinarily inexpensive these days - I was in E.P Levine in Boston (ask for Mike Bard if you do call there) and saw someone shell out about a THIRD of what a Hasselblad System, in Mint Condition would have cost just five years ago! I was tempted to get a few pieces myself. He also had a Mamiya 7II with a 45mm wide angle set up that was just traded.

 

In a nutshell, Marc is right - the Leica SLR or rangefinder systems will do the job very, very well - the Leica SLR equipment being the most inexpensive. However, the Hasselblad V system cameras and Zeiss lenses are going cheap and in great shape, and there were many components and lenses to choose from. You may spend more on a light meter than most of the used MF equipment you purchase

 

BTW - Mike Bard can be reached at <mike@eplevine.com> - he just bought the store and is quickly earning a reputation as New England's best Pro and Serious Amateur dealer. Very friendly, will bend over backward to help you find anything - esp. Leica, - and is well connected. I suspect he'll be well known everywhere in a short while! He's young, talented and dedicated to every customer alike; pro or not. This is not an add; just what I've seen him do IMHO

[telewatt]

Hi Robert. I see that you're not sure if you can afford a MF camera - so I guess an M8 or R8/9 is also out of the question :-). As has been mentioned elsewhere MF prices are very low at the moment. For example a UK dealer has a Mamiya 330 twin lens reflex camera for sale at the equivalent of $300. But the real question has to be what sort of photographs do you have in mind? Do you have any current examples of what you are trying to achieve?

 

..if you do a shooting for a book you have to think not only on the Camera..the films and processing will cost a lot... .so it could be interest to do it digital....

 

Regards,

Jan

[rfisher]

Benedictions and blessings on your head---or should I say, all of them! Hi, this is Robert and I’m delighted my S.O.S. for help received so many helpful suggestions from readers of the Leica web site. If I can lean a little bit more on your patience (I’m sending this to each of your “addresses”), I’d like to follow up your responses with a few more queries. Why? Sad to say, I’m a low-tech person (my 9 to 5 job is as an editor) and I feel you need an engineering degree to operate the more complicated cameras out there! As to my subject matter (which several people asked about): the 24-karat sunny landscapes of southern Italy---I’m trying to do a “Great Gardens of” book. This region is so gigglingly gorgeous you can keep your lens cap on and still take a beautiful picture (for proof, see some of my photos in one of the “prompts” below). As to my question---medium-format versus 35 MM?---I was amazed to hear from many that 35 MM might do the trick, even if the slide was blown up to 11 inches square. I should add that in Vivian Russell’s Edith Wharton’s Italian Landscapes book (where she noted she used a Leica R5), many of her photos were blown up to cover TWO pages, so that is more like 22 by 10 inches! And they reproduce beautifully, with no graininess at all. Now why is that? Several people mentioned getting a “professional scan.” Pray tell, what does this mean? Can I or a publisher put a 35 MM slide into some sort of scanner and make it magically “hold” when blown up to bigger proportions? Some mentioned a “high resolution” scan; another mentioned “using a 2900 DPI scanner or better.” So am I confusing myself? In other words, it is not the camera that delivers the high quality resolution but the “scanner”?! Another comment was to “Use slide film if scanning is the desired workflow”---I guess this means if you prefer slides to digital? Like many, I feel digital is destroying the integrity and “art” of photography, so I think I would prefer to stick with film. Thus, I was amazed to hear that people are “unloading” medium-format equipment and it could probably wind up being cheaper than a Leica R8, which one big store in NYC lists at about $3,800 with a main lens (believe me, a big enough investment for me). From what I gather, digital cameras are more expensive than film, at least in Leica-land, especially medium-format digital, so that is probably a no-go. According to one, medium-format is “overkill” for the sizes I specified, and I confess the idea of staring down at my waist to see the image (if that is what you do) seems a little odd. One person was very positive about a Leica Digilux 3 (digital SLR), which was touted as “affordable.” Really? I thought Leica digital has Rolls-Royce prices. But they also mentioned the Panasonic DMC-L1 (as much cheaper). And one final comment was that if I’m doing landscapes a Medium (4 x 5 format) will “knock you over.” Sorry—did they mean literally (it’s bulky) or that the quality is so great? But to return where I began: Vivian Russell’s smashing book was done with a Leica R5 (now Leica R8), so, for my purposes, does the jury feel, all in all, this 35 MM marvel can deliver coffee-table book worthy photography as good as medium format? Mucho merci for your time and consideration!

 

Fodors.com > Features > Escape Series > The Blue View > Slides

 

Escape to the Amalfi Coast, 1st Edition: One-Of-A-Kind Experiences in Capri, Positano, Sorrento, and the Bay of Naples by Robert I. C. Fisher (Editor), Fodor's (Used, New, Out-of-Print) - Alibris

 

Fodor's Escape to the Amalfi Coast by Robert I. C. Fisher (Text by) (Used, New, Out-of-Print) - Alibris

 

Amazon.com: Fodor's Naples, Capri, and the Amalfi Coast, 3rd Edition (Fodor's Gold Guides): Books: Fodor's

[Guest stnami]

Robert it all looks like an advertisment for your books and as you are in the industry you know the answers, as an editor you should:)

[Leicamateur]

Robert on one hand you write you are a low tech person etc. and have basically no idea about photography, cameras etc.

On the other hand you tell us to look at your samples... if you have no experience (what your first post suggested) how could you ever manage to publish books before... I mean you write in your last post these are your photos.

 

And I agree with stnami, as editor of photographic books you should have such knowledge, at least basic knowledge. I am willing to help other users and give advice to my best knowledge, and I'm also just an amateur but I don't like being plaid.

 

So if you honestly want advice, delete those "ads" for your books... but I guess that's the last thing I'm writing on this matter anyway.

[earleygallery]

With such a limited knowledge of photography I would suggest that most Leica's and MF cameras will be beyond your capabilities. A Leica C Lux or D Lux digital, or possibly a Leica CM (film) would be more suitable for a novice photographer and should acheive perfectly acceptable results for your purpose.

[frc]

A pre production book ad on the Leica forum?

 

Uhhhhhh .............. Ok.

 

Ain't you being a bit suspicious Imants?

[Guest stnami]

.

....as from the 27th I’m a low-tech person;) here (my 9 to 5 job is as an editor) :D .............................

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes, but I don't even care one little. little tiny bit.........................

[Leicamateur]

just look at the links... all the books have his name on it... don't you feel that's advertising?

especially the links are to amazon and such..

if he wanted to show his photos he just could show the photos itself, no need for a link to a shop where the book is sold. Don't like that.

[Overgaard]

Being the editor of a book doesn't necessairly make you the photographer - nor even the writer.

 

And come on guys. who the f... cares about links to books. Write to the moderator if you feel offended, but spare us the sincere concern in the thread.

 

Robert asked a question.

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Hallo,

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[Overgaard]

Robert,

 

A slide is an acoustic recording of the image and requires a scanner to be digitized so that one can print it. Most scanners you can buy for semi-professional use (like the Nikon Coolscans) are 'recording' the image at 3,000 - 5,000 dpi wheeas 'professional scans' (large professional scanners done by a company who then deliver you the digitized file) is 5,000-9,000 dpi and contain a great deal more details. Also a guy opertaing a professional scanner can judge how precise the slide should be scanned to get most details, the natural look, etc.

 

The dpi term could be translated into 'lines per inch' and tell how fine details is recorded (and also how big the digitized file is).

 

There is still a discussion how many details a slide contains, but it for sure contains more information than a 10,000 dpi scan can reveal.

 

So in that sense a slide is way better than even the largest digital camera as the digital camera doesn't work with that fine definition of the picture.

 

 

Slide film come in different grains. 50 ISO has very small grains (Fuji Velvia would be a good choice) and require more light to 'record' the picture. 200 ISO film has larger grains and is on the limit of what would look good for ladscape photos in 11 inch wide print.

 

The less light you want to be able to photograph in, the faster (higher ISO) you must choose and the larger grains you will have to live with.

 

For landscape in Italy, 50 ISO should be fine.

 

I hope this answered some of your questions.