Downsizing?!?

[!Nomad64]

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Thank you very much, gents.

 

@ theoldman: thanks for pointing out, I'll meditate about it

 

@ Archiver: thanks for highlighting this point although I'm well aware of that. I thought of a two-cameras based solution not because I want to take both of them all of the time but because I would be able to choose the most appropriate one for the conditions I'd expect to find. Travelling/backpacking heavily loaded? X2 in the pocket. Walking with lighter cargo or cycling and having the time to stop, gaze and shoot at the landscape? Maybe the XV.

I also tried the solution you suggest, i.e. one only lens on the M9 as this was the best I could do prior to pay for an extra camera. The M9 with the 24/2.8 is already in the region of 1,300 grams, almost the double of the XV and 4 times an X2. And depending on the conditions I feel them all (my back has worsened a bit in recent times).

 

@ michaelbrenner: I share your opinion. For me the X2 would be the starting point. Not because I have anything against the X1 but because based on the reviews the X2 introduced some substantial improvements. I have however the suspect that the X1 images IQ might be a tad superior to those of the X2.

 

@ visoflex: your point is full of common sense. I was still balancing about what to pair to an X2, an XV (better quality but greater weight and bulk) or a DL6/LX7 (wider at 24 and lighter but worse quality).

Regrettably I still have to come to terms with the quality/resolution fetish. Rationally speaking I know that for the current purposes and expectations (posting on the web, prints not exceeding A4, no pro assignments) DL6 files should be already good enough but emotionally I feel I always want the best I can afford, even if this is overkill for my capabilities. Maybe I should re-check those DL6 RAW files again...

 

Thanks again,

Bruno

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[Archiver]

A few LX7 (D-Lux 6) images to mull over.

 

LX7 - Fractal Reality by Archiver, on Flickr

 

LX7 - Poppy Fields by Archiver, on Flickr

 

LX7 - Enter The Stargate by Archiver, on Flickr

 

These were processed in Lightroom. As much as you take a hit in image quality with the small sensor compared with the M9, I'm constantly surprised at how good the LX7 is. In good light and the right conditions it's virtually indistinguishable from the Canon 30D and 17-55mm f2.8 I used to shoot with. The differences show up in low light conditions, but even these can be lessened depending on the subjects and styles, as you know.

[Archiver]

@ Archiver: thanks for highlighting this point although I'm well aware of that. I thought of a two-cameras based solution not because I want to take both of them all of the time but because I would be able to choose the most appropriate one for the conditions I'd expect to find. Travelling/backpacking heavily loaded? X2 in the pocket. Walking with lighter cargo or cycling and having the time to stop, gaze and shoot at the landscape? Maybe the XV.

 

I also tried the solution you suggest, i.e. one only lens on the M9 as this was the best I could do prior to pay for an extra camera. The M9 with the 24/2.8 is already in the region of 1,300 grams, almost the double of the XV and 4 times an X2. And depending on the conditions I feel them all (my back has worsened a bit in recent times).

 

Another alternative is the Ricoh GR with 21mm adapter. The GR itself is disturbingly close to the M9 with Zeiss Biogon 28/2.8, and with the 21mm adapter is also close to the Zeiss 21/2.8. You lose out on shallow depth of field, but the colours can be quite extraordinary, and the resolution is excellent due to the lack of AA filter. The camera and adapter are beautifully light and easily disassembled if need be. I'd wager that the resolution fetish would be well satisfied with a GR, and your back would thank you, as well.

 

I know this is the Leica forum, and you're obviously attracted to their wonderful cameras. I'm a bit of a fiend, myself, and if I could have a XV with slightly faster lens and great video I'd jump on it. But I also enjoy other brands as long as they do what I want, and the price difference is welcome, too.

[NZDavid]

Here are a few jpeg scenics processed with Graphic Converter. First is D-Lux 5, second is M9 with 2.8/24 Elmarit-Asph, third is an earlier one with the X1, and the fourth is in the same area also with the X1. Doubtless I could PP them more, but hopeful they give you an indication.

 

You will notice that the D-Lux 5 has a large dust spot on the sensor! Dust happens even with fixed lens cameras if you take them out and about into the wilderness. Same happened with the X1.

 

D-Lux 5 and M9 pics both look really clear at small size but the difference becomes clear once you blow them up. The detail with the D-Lux pic becomes mushy. X1 pics are super sharp.

 

The 35 lens is actually surprisingly versatile, and of course makes the camera nice and compact.

 

Perhaps M9 when needed and take X1 or X2 when you want a really compact camera?

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[rob_w]

Thanks David. The first two pictures say it all, really, even at web size and resolution.

[!Nomad64]

@ Archiver: thanks for the further input, much appreciated.

 

@ NZDavid: thank you very very much for posting the pics. I'm with rob_w as he says that even at web size and resolution the difference between the first and the second photo is there to be seen.

As of now I'm in the process of getting a beater X2 for starters in order to evaluate my actual needs. I'll therefore keep using the M9 as often as I can but when weight and size are an issue I'll just grab the X2. Then I'll see.

I've temporarily ruled out the DL6/LX7 option further to discovering that RWL/RW2 files are quite difficult to process with GIMP and Rawtherapee doesn't even open them, at least in a Linux environment. If I wanted the DL6/LX7 I should therefore buy also a Mac and a Lightroom license involving a further costs increase which I currently do not need.

DNG files are a charm to work with. Apart from those from my M8/M9, those from X2 and X Vario I found around so far are quite malleable. Strangely enough I cannot say the same about DNG files originating from the T. These are quite tricky to develop and however the final results I got are in the region of the jpegs straight out of camera, so a lot of work for no practical gain.

 

Cheers,

Bruno

[Likaleica]

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Here are a few jpeg scenics processed with Graphic Converter. First is D-Lux 5, second is M9 with 2.8/24 Elmarit-Asph, third is an earlier one with the X1, and the fourth is in the same area also with the X1. Doubtless I could PP them more, but hopeful they give you an indication.

 

You will notice that the D-Lux 5 has a large dust spot on the sensor! Dust happens even with fixed lens cameras if you take them out and about into the wilderness. Same happened with the X1.

 

D-Lux 5 and M9 pics both look really clear at small size but the difference becomes clear once you blow them up. The detail with the D-Lux pic becomes mushy. X1 pics are super sharp.

 

The 35 lens is actually surprisingly versatile, and of course makes the camera nice and compact.

 

Perhaps M9 when needed and take X1 or X2 when you want a really compact camera?

 

That's it! I'm moving to New Zealand! Beautiful scenery and photos. Thanks David.

[jlindstrom]

I had the M9 and the X2 and it was a really nice combo.

 

The X2 was right at the verge of being the perfect camera with it's optional grip.

 

Few small updates to X3 and I'm buying it to compliment my M240.

 

my updates:

 

- automatic lens cover. I know 3rd party option exists, but that adds dimension & bulk.

- I wouldn't even mind fixed lens with automatic cover and maybe a built-in nd filter

- please make it a summicron

- aperture ring on the lens

- snappier electronics

- better external evf with automatic switching between lcd/evf

- half stop aperture & shutter speeds

 

Basically mini M with snappy af & fixed 35 lens. Maybe a tele-converter for 75..

 

Those were just wishes.. I could easily live with the X2 just as it was. Many times it was my main camera with M9 sidetracked. Image quality was great.

 

So definitely try it!

 

//Juha

 

 

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[!Nomad64]

Thanks Juha,

 

as of Thursday I have exactly the very same combo you used to have, i.e. M9 + X2.

 

I'm very fond of my new toy and however bearing in mind its obvious limitations and the fact that its files cannot be on par with those of the M9 I must say that the first results are quite encouraging. I posted a couple test pics in the X2 photo thread.

I'm really impressed by the automatic exposure precision and by the usability of higher ISO speed files.

If compared with my older M8 files, these latter are cleaner and sharper but in terms of higher ISO rendition the X2 wins hands down.

At less than 500 g fully pimped up (strap, protector case and EVF) it's a breeze and a joy t carry. the M) gives better results, but the best camera is the one you have with you when you need it and here the X2 is a winner.

 

My wishlist for an X3 is lower than yours. I don't need much more than what I already have.

Automatic lens cover and built-in ND aren't priorities for me. Having never used them I don't miss them.

I'd rather ask for a FF sensor paired with a Summarit 35/2.5. I have it on the M9 and it's a real underestimated jewel.

And if not a FF sensor I'd ask for one with less pixels and the same high ISO rendition.

Aperture ring on the lens? Definitely so, that's where it belongs.

Electronics are OK with me. I don't do street so I don't need any more speed.

Better external EVF with auto switching between LCD/EVF would be really nice to have.

Half stop apertures and shutter speeds would make things more normal. One third increment on stops in theory allows for more precise control, but in practice with the good automatic exposure it becomes quite useless.

 

Cheers,

Bruno

[asiafish]

Thanks Juha,

I'd rather ask for a FF sensor paired with a Summarit 35/2.5. I have it on the M9 and it's a real underestimated jewel.

And if not a FF sensor I'd ask for one with less pixels and the same high ISO rendition.

Aperture ring on the lens? Definitely so, that's where it belongs.

Electronics are OK with me. I don't do street so I don't need any more speed.

Better external EVF with auto switching between LCD/EVF would be really nice to have.

Half stop apertures and shutter speeds would make things more normal. One third increment on stops in theory allows for more precise control, but in practice with the good automatic exposure it becomes quite useless.

 

Cheers,

Bruno

 

Thats about the perfect combination. I too use the Summarit 35/2.5 and it is a fantastic piece of glass on the M Monochrom. I used to own an X2 and sold it, regretted it, and have another on the way. Best small camera I've ever used.

[NZDavid]

I recently compared an X-Vario and X2 in Sydney. The X Vario is about the same size as my M9 with 2/35 attached. The X2 is a lot smaller. For a compact take-anywhere camera that yields good results -- and as a backup to any M -- the X2 seems like a good choice.

[jlindstrom]

I think there's a noticeable size difference between X Vario and the M. I reckon the X Vario is about the size of a classic film M, something like the M6 (non-ttl) or an MP with 50 summilux pre-asph.

 

So it is by no means pocketable, where the X2 I could fit in my jeans pocket.. it wasn't pretty or comfortable there, but if it was mandatory it could be done. With the XV - not in a million year, absolutely no way to squeeze it in.

 

And that sort of sums up the very clear size difference between those 2.

 

If I were just starting with Leica and wanted the experience, but without manual focus, I could be very happy owning both the X2 and X Vario. Where the X2 would be the pocket camera and X Vario when needing different focals or just walking around taking photos.

 

Would make a killer combo.

 

//Juha

[Ecaton]

The XV gives me an excellent Quad Elmar whilst still being compact and lightweight. If I wanted one for my M9 it would weight a ton and cost a fortune;).

[colonel]

Thanks Juha,

 

as of Thursday I have exactly the very same combo you used to have, i.e. M9 + X2.

 

 

I'd rather ask for a FF sensor paired with a Summarit 35/2.5. I have it on the M9 and it's a real underestimated jewel.

 

 

Cheers,

Bruno

 

 

I agree about the Summarit. Absolutely fantastic. Not as popular with Leica man as they don't cost enough but really they have replaced the Summicron in their respective ranges IMHO.

 

The charm of the M9 is also the interchangeable lenses. I used a RX1 and it's not possible as an only camera as occasionally I like the long end.

 

The XV by definition should be paired with something heavier IMHO.

For pocket size only the RX100 fits the bill.