Hand holding. Higher than focal lengths required for me.

[Guest Gilgamesh]

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I may simply approaching my 50th, but the M240, for me, can no longer be shot at below the focal length.

By that, I mean on, say a 50mm lens, I am better off above 1/60th and happier at 1/90th.

 

On my M6, it was always safe to shoot at least one stop under, so 1/30th or 1/15th, no problem

 

Anyone else feel that this 21st century digital Leica has lost "something", and yes, I appreciate we can vary the ISO mid-shoot? That is not the point, however.

 

I still miss the whole iso 100, 1/8th with the 35mm f2 lenses I sold the M6. I sold the empty box a year later for £40+.

 

Maybe the DT's are getting the better of me, even?!

 

PS - I bought a plastic (read: cheap) mono pod last month, a big thumbs-up.

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[jaapv]

A very personal thing. I manage much longer times, but then I have been trained for steady hands....

[250swb]

The high resolution digital sensor does require a steadier hand, a tripod, or monopod, because it exaggerates the slightest movement. With your M6 the grain would mask a tiny amount of movement, and the grain would also add 'texture' and give a satisfying bite to the image overall that could overcome being slightly out of focus, as many well known 35mm images are.

 

So I'd suggest add some digital grain, to make the image more graphic, get a better monopod that you will enjoy using, or buy a tripod. The normal 'I can hand hold at 1/8th second' boast is pretty hollow against the digital sensor, and unless you are using film now deserves to be dumped into the Leica myth dustbin.

 

Steve

[plewislambert]

You did not say why the M240 is harder to hold steady than the film Leica at longer shutter speeds. Does the shutter release require a firmer press? Try using a screw-in "mushroom" Are your hands unsteady? Try breathing calmly a few moments before firing the camera. Like firing a target rifle.

If you think the monopod is helping then keep using it. My experience with monopods is they were less steady than tripods, but using a 2second delayed release might help you. I am 75: shake isn't usually an issue with handheld shots. Indeed, my bag has tripod straps and I have a light tripod but I leave it at home. For church interiors with an f5.6 12mm ultrawide CV I might lean against a wall or a pillar or place the camera firmly on a pew-top. Or even change the ISO to 640. I would not expect a sharp picture at 1/8 sec although I might fire off a few in the hope one would be sharp.

 

Initially I found the M9 a little tricky to use after my M4-P but now (a year on) using the M9 is almost automatic. The simple menu system is helpful (my Panasonics have a menu a metre long!)

The only conscious process is deciding whether to fit another lens or to change to a different standpoint.

I hope this helps.

Philip

[almoore]

Anyone else feel that this 21st century digital Leica has lost "something"...

 

I don't think Leica has lost 'something' in the digital age, it's lost everything.

 

No other manufacturer has ever matched the tactile appeal of a film M, but Leica's digital offerings are dismal. Yes, an M9 or 240 looks like a Leica of old, but it doesn't feel like one. Bloated in size, unbalanced and glitchy, I've no understanding of what people like about digital Ms other than their lenses.

 

An Olympus OMD or a Sony RX1 is much closer in the current era to the admirable spirit of Oskar Barnack than anything labelled Leica.

[wda]

There are more factors at work here; not just age. After exercise, such as a brisk walk, allowance must be made for the rate of heart beat. For some time I have worked on the basis of use double the reciprocal number as an absolute minimum, sometime even briefer times. Camera shake is insidious; it does not show on the LCD, even when magnified.

 

It also depends on the degree of ultimate enlargement. En prints can tolerate more camera shake than exhibition size prints. So it is difficult to generalise, certainly across camera models.

[kdriceman]

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Getting older might be a part of it, but the higher resolution sensor is the main culprit. I try to shoot well over the reciprocal rule speed by boosting ISO, but shooting at lower resolution will help and down-rezzing the file in post may help. So, I don't think we've really 'lost' something, we've simply gained resolution, which exposes camera shake more. A good discussion by Ming Thein here....http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/11/05/resolution-shot-discipline-image-quality/

 

 

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[keithlaban.co.uk]

I've had many opportunities over the last few years to examine FF high mega pixel files that were held up to be pin sharp, crazy sharp, mind bleeding sharp...the sad fact is many of these files turned out to be poor at best. One man's sharp is another's candidate for the recycle bin.

 

We used to judge film for sharpness with a 10x loupe but now with digital we make our judgements at 100% on screen. As an artist of 40+ years producing very detailed work I have steady hands and the ability to lower my pulse rate at will. Despite this, for analogue shots that really needed to be sharp I would match the focal length. Now with unforgiving high mega pixel full frame digital sensors - and when it really matters - I triple it.

[tobey bilek]

Cameras can never be hand held for best results. But we all compromise and do it including me.

 

The best technique I have found is the rifle marksman standing position, feet at a line 45 degrees to the camera subject line. Keep elbows down into your chest . Left hand on the lens with pinky finger down, not waving in the breeze. This will get you most of the way.

 

Step two is shorten the camera strap so it goes over right shoulder and in left arm pit.

It needs to short enough so forward tension can be placed on the camera. Move your head forward a small amount to view and focus. The strap tension is a great steadier.

 

Lean against something that does not move. For what it is worth, I did a shot at a museum 1/2 second, 50 mm, because that was all that was available to me. When the film came out of the tank, I put a loupe on that frame and it was sharp.

 

Do not breath when activating the shutter and any good marksman will tell you to time it between heart beats, something I never mastered.

 

The old clip on meters were great steadiers also. I am surprised one of the third party hang on accessory makers does not make something . But that is lost to the ages now.

 

Adopt any or all any you will see improved results.

[masjah]

Brian Bower, in his book Leica Reflex Photography, says that the traditional reciprocal of the focal length folklore is in his opinion far too slow for reliably sharp images. Granted, an M is doubtless easier to hand-hold than an R, but I'm finding it increasingly difficult to hand-hold anything as I get older. (A degree of benign tremor developing with age doesn't help. My GP suggested I could go on beta blockers if I felt strongly enough, or else a monopod. In the event, I don't find a monopod all that helpul, and use a tripod a lot of the time - a travel one or a bigger, heavier one according to circumstance.)

[jaapv]

The high resolution digital sensor does require a steadier hand, a tripod, or monopod, because it exaggerates the slightest movement. With your M6 the grain would mask a tiny amount of movement, and the grain would also add 'texture' and give a satisfying bite to the image overall that could overcome being slightly out of focus, as many well known 35mm images are.

 

So I'd suggest add some digital grain, to make the image more graphic, get a better monopod that you will enjoy using, or buy a tripod. The normal 'I can hand hold at 1/8th second' boast is pretty hollow against the digital sensor, and unless you are using film now deserves to be dumped into the Leica myth dustbin.

 

Steve

"I can handhold at 1/8th" is not a myth, as it is a skill worth aquiring. Obviously one cannot beat a pixelpeeping tripod shot, but the result can be quite acceptable and can make the difference between getting the shot or missing it altogether.

[Jeff S]

The best technique I have found is the rifle marksman standing position...

 

Another related technique from an old post by Lars B. here.

 

Jeff

[thighslapper]

My GP suggested I could go on beta blockers if I felt strongly enough, or else a monopod. In the event, I don't find a monopod all that helpul,

 

quite painful to swallow as well I should have thought

 

I still manage 2/f regularly with 50mm and below and have not noticed any M9/M difference. With 75+ and longer R lenses I stick to 1/f as the % of sharp shots for drops as I go up below this figure..... did a whole day of portraiture with the APO 100 macro at 1/125 and 1/90 and all are pin sharp.

 

On the Sony A7r I couldn't get shots without camera-shake at less than 1/125 with their Zeiss 55mm lens

[250swb]

"I can handhold at 1/8th" is not a myth, as it is a skill worth aquiring. Obviously one cannot beat a pixelpeeping tripod shot, but the result can be quite acceptable and can make the difference between getting the shot or missing it altogether.

 

I'll be honest, when I have got a usable sharp picture at the very slow shutter speeds hand held I'll fess up and say it was probably more by luck. And sure as anything the more I practice the luckier I get, but it isn't something that is reliably reproducible so it isn't something I would dream of suggesting as routinely possible on a camera forum. And I've never seen anybody ever do it reliably, when it matters.

 

Forty years taking pictures has taught me the skill to be prepared and do everything possible to get a sharp picture before resorting to hand holding at a very slow shutter speed. How often can it even be practiced, the adrenalin of needing to press the shutter to capture a moment far outweighs anything that can be taught by calm transcendental meditation. Lowering the heart rate is pretty pointless when the object of the photograph has just gone out the door. Sure, have a play, find out what it feels like, but don't confuse hand holding at slow shutter speeds for skill when it is trumped by simple common sense that says use a flash, or a tripod, or increase the ISO. There is no skill in choosing an unreliable method of making a photograph.

 

Steve

[bephoto]

Having music as a serious hobby helped me a lot for having steady hands. my advice is start playing Bass

[jip]

Make sure your camera is set to classic light metering for shutter vibration.

[pico]

I may simply approaching my 50th, but the M240, for me, can no longer be shot at below the focal length.

By that, I mean on, say a 50mm lens, I am better off above 1/60th and happier at 1/90th.

 

[...]

 

Maybe the DT's are getting the better of me, even?!

 

Not DT's, certainly, but perhaps Familial (Essential) Tremor. Consider asking your doctor about Propranolol for its off-label benefits. Are you by chance also hard of hearing?

 

Jaap: "A very personal thing. I manage much longer times, but then I have been trained for steady hands...."

 

How does one use finger rests with a camera?

.

[jaapv]

I should look for it or replicate - some years ago I posted a consecutive series of ten 35 mm shots @ 1/4 sec on this forum. one was really blurred, two on the soft side but usable, six perfectly fine and one really sharp. That score is good enough for me not to put my camera away in dejection when light gets low. Of course a tripod or Gorillapod is the best solution, but I do not carry those with me at all times.

I'll be honest, when I have got a usable sharp picture at the very slow shutter speeds hand held I'll fess up and say it was probably more by luck. And sure as anything the more I practice the luckier I get, but it isn't something that is reliably reproducible so it isn't something I would dream of suggesting as routinely possible on a camera forum. And I've never seen anybody ever do it reliably, when it matters.

 

Forty years taking pictures has taught me the skill to be prepared and do everything possible to get a sharp picture before resorting to hand holding at a very slow shutter speed. How often can it even be practiced, the adrenalin of needing to press the shutter to capture a moment far outweighs anything that can be taught by calm transcendental meditation. Lowering the heart rate is pretty pointless when the object of the photograph has just gone out the door. Sure, have a play, find out what it feels like, but don't confuse hand holding at slow shutter speeds for skill when it is trumped by simple common sense that says use a flash, or a tripod, or increase the ISO. There is no skill in choosing an unreliable method of making a photograph.

 

Steve

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wattsy]

some years ago I posted a consecutive series of ten 35 mm shots @ 1/4 sec on this forum. one was really blurred, two on the soft side but usable, six perfectly fine and one really sharp.

 

Having to take ten shots to get one sharp one doesn't make it sound like a very reliable method. Not exactly decisive moment stuff.

[imperfiction]

There are more factors at work here; not just age. After exercise' date=' such as a brisk walk, allowance must be made for the rate of heart beat. For some time I have worked on the basis of use double the reciprocal number as an absolute minimum, sometime even briefer times. Camera shake is insidious; it does not show on the LCD, even when magnified. It also depends on the degree of ultimate enlargement. En prints can tolerate more camera shake than exhibition size prints. So it is difficult to generalise, certainly across camera models.[/quote']

 

Certainly we should also remember the viewing distance.

 

To this day, I struggle to come up with a scan which matches the clarity and micro contrast of a digital picture with the same lens. So if we try to scale down a digital file to a film scan, in my experience, the files can be indistinguishable even though blown-up the digital shows slight shake.