MarkP Posted January 23, 2014 Share #41 Posted January 23, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Problem with that is the price would increase and then everybody would groan....................................more. Surely it couldn't increase the cost much. That doesn't mean it wouldn't increase the cost a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Hi MarkP, Take a look here M240 at -35 degrees. Field report.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
steveBK Posted January 23, 2014 Share #42 Posted January 23, 2014 SD cards are the only memory cards I have seen fail, so this is an interesting hunch. I can say my personal M240 has exceeded my expectations in cold weather. Another 15F day with heavy snow and wind, camera performed flawlessly shooting 100 frames in an hour. Battery only ran down 10%, which is fine for 100 frames and an hour of use. Camera was in-hand and exposed at all times, not slipped into any case, pocket or tucked into jacket. Personally I can't tolerate weather much colder, so possibly the M240 has better weather rating than me. Jaap raised a good question. Is the problem the SD card? Gilgamesh, did you use a CF or SD or both in your Nikon D800? I have used my Nikon D2x to -18C with no problem even though the spec is also 0C. I have come to really like CF cards; they are much more robust than SD cards. I don't think any normally camera equipment without special preparation will work to -35C. Not even an M3. I recall that special servicing was required for the Leica equipment that went to Mt Everest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 23, 2014 Share #43 Posted January 23, 2014 Page 253 of your Leica M Instructions Manual says clearly “Operating conditions 0-40°C" ....as has been pointed out endlessly in this thread and mirrors what virtually every camera manufacturer states. The point is the inconsistency in performance, with some cameras behaving badly after just a few minutes very near the bottom point of the permitted temperature scale (in my case making black dataless images after a few minutes at only -1ºC, where I very much doubt if the camera ever dropped to near 0ºC). Other M240’s are functioning flawlessly in far colder temperatures for long periods. This cannot be correct. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted January 23, 2014 Share #44 Posted January 23, 2014 My problem is frozen fingers. I simply can't use the camera while wearing gloves. Something along these lines can be really helpful! Jasmine Silk Pure Silk Gloves Thermal Liner Glove Inner Ski Bike Cycle Gloves (Large): Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors From experience, latex gloves are a better fit (like a "second skin"), cheaper (just get a pack of disposable ones) and more effective at keeping your hands warm. Although perhaps not as stylish as silk gloves... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted January 23, 2014 Share #45 Posted January 23, 2014 I have to say that I think my own brain would stop functioning at these sort of temperatures. Lucky the Nikon worked but then I wouldn't really expect otherwise. Going back to the days of film even that would have suffered with the extreme cold often becoming brittle and battery operated cameras were best left at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gilgamesh Posted January 23, 2014 Share #46 Posted January 23, 2014 I too have something akin to the silk inner gloves, 'cept they have the little sticky patterns in the fabric meaning I can hold the Leica without worries. Then over these a 5 fingered fleece glove, but boy, the cold can be a horror at -25 and below. At -35 and it's just a matter of a couple of minutes outside and the fingers inside both gloves state to hurt. Then handle tripods, cameras, lenses and it's just so @£$%^&*() painful. Worse when hand holding the 70-200 f2.8 Nikon lens. Only SD cards - CF cards are £$£ for 64GB. The Nikon is a techno' marvel. But not on maul focus. I too use the M240 with the 35mm f2 lens the most, then the 50mm f1.4. I think the images on the 90mm f2 are simply stunning but in low light at f2, unless it's tripod mounted, for portraits in low light, I defer back to the 50mm I'm afraid, not nearly as stunning, optically, but more versatile by half & easier to focus. If I know I have a subject's unlimited time, then the 90mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted January 23, 2014 Share #47 Posted January 23, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... My problem is frozen fingers. I simply can't use the camera while wearing gloves. Yeah, its really tough on fingers. I use either shooting mittens with index finger and wool gloves inside, With these I can sort of operate camera, except the stupid designed microscopic menu buttons. Second choice is thin Sealskin gloves inside thick wool mittens inside wind-proof mittens.If I need fine-tuning I do this with only thin gloves on. This reduces the contact-freezing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 23, 2014 Share #48 Posted January 23, 2014 For less extreme conditions, where you need to keep your fingers free, I am very fond of Kiwi Kate’s possum skin fur lined fingerless gloves/wrist warmers. Possum fur is one of these naturally hollow fibre furs and offer very good thermal insulation. The fur comes from New Zealand, where the possum is a very undesirable foreign invader/vermin. I don’t have good circulation in my hands after accident damage and arthritis and I even wear these indoors, when handling cold metal cameras. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted January 25, 2014 Share #49 Posted January 25, 2014 Black frames sound suspiciously like a shutter issue? Could it be that the oil lubricating the blades had frozen? I had black frames on my M8 but that was in tropical Bali & it turned out to be a broken shutter assembly. It was replaced. I understand how disappointed & demoralised you would have felt, especially since it was a paid job but don't give up. Get your camera checked over by Leica, giving them printouts with settings & method used, lens & aperture, iso, etc.. Some users have reported little or no problems at low temps. Turn off live view at extreme temps.. Fwiw...my own experience, albeit with an M9, is that it worked great down to -29.5C in Russian deep winter & locked up once after a 3hr session in windy, icy & snowing conditions. A short spell (30mins) indoors for me to to eat & warm up solved that issue with no further problem. I had no black frames at all during that time. I'm cautious of mixing sd cards in different cameras because different codes & spaces are written in formatting. This has caused glitches for me in the past but after allocating one specific card for one camera & another for my Leica, it was okie. As already mentioned by Jaapv, it may be a faulty card. At least mark this card with a permanent marker so that you can test this at a later date & swap with a new one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 27, 2014 Share #50 Posted January 27, 2014 I was talking to an old friend yesterday and as I knew he had recently been to the Antarctic on a trip to Mount Erebus, I asked him how his cameras had behaved in the low temperatures. He made a number of very interesting observations. He uses Phase One cameras and has an IQ180 back, and a Phase Achromatic B&W back. He said he wished he had had the new CMOS IQ250 back for its wider ISO range but had failed to get the loan of a prototype. He and the movie people started off with electrical heaters in their bags, working off the vehicle electrical systems but found this was a total pain and in the end used simple chemical hand warmer bags (the things that look like teabags). They found were much simpler and worked better anyway. I asked if condensation was an issue but there is virtually no water vapour in the air, so no problem. Once the cameras were out of the bag, he said there seemed to be no logic as to how long they would work and which combinations worked for longer. It changed from day to day. Usually, the first thing to go was auto focus, which slowed down to a crawl and had to be switched off. The next thing was the mirror return, which is damped and the damper got so stiff that the mirror would not seat in the down position, which locked up the camera. He said the Phase backs were excellent and just kept working. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted January 27, 2014 Share #51 Posted January 27, 2014 The point is the inconsistency in performance, with some cameras behaving badly after just a few minutes very near the bottom point of the permitted temperature scale (in my case making black dataless images after a few minutes at only -1ºC, where I very much doubt if the camera ever dropped to near 0ºC). Other M240’s are functioning flawlessly in far colder temperatures for long periods. This cannot be correct. Wilson However, there are many potential variables here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanislaw Posted January 27, 2014 Share #52 Posted January 27, 2014 Removing the daft film-era base plate with heavily mitted hands is a non-starter. Well, actually I think that base plate is better for hard use then a flimsy battery/card door which can be easily damaged should you hit something hard the bottom of camera. Beside it you can buy third part bottom plates with battery/card door. Using the cameras are always diffy in extra low temp. How do you press the buttons on D800 with you big mittens on, for example. Anyway, one would wish a battery pack for Leica M, shaped like old winders for heavy shooting, that`s true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gilgamesh Posted January 28, 2014 Share #53 Posted January 28, 2014 "He uses Phase One cameras and has an IQ180 back, and a Phase Achromatic B&W back. Mt Erebus" I have come over all light-headed! I hitched hiked (£0) to Peninsular Antarctica in Jan / Feb 2011 out of Ushuia, so I know what it can look like. Do you have links as that IQ back produces shockingly, HUGELY detailed images at a size you'd scarcely believe if you usually shoot 35mm? I use a remote shutter cable on the D800 with the Mirror-Up setting if it's a low shutter speed or self timer on occasions. Or the standard release. It's not difficult. A manual cable release for the M240 should be in your camera bag at all times, I use the Nikon manufactured one, it's very robust where all others have died. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 28, 2014 Share #54 Posted January 28, 2014 "He uses Phase One cameras and has an IQ180 back, and a Phase Achromatic B&W back. Mt Erebus" I have come over all light-headed! I hitched hiked (£0) to Peninsular Antarctica in Jan / Feb 2011 out of Ushuia, so I know what it can look like. Do you have links as that IQ back produces shockingly, HUGELY detailed images at a size you'd scarcely believe if you usually shoot 35mm? I use a remote shutter cable on the D800 with the Mirror-Up setting if it's a low shutter speed or self timer on occasions. Or the standard release. It's not difficult. A manual cable release for the M240 should be in your camera bag at all times, I use the Nikon manufactured one, it's very robust where all others have died. No images to link to I am afraid. The whole thing was for a New Zealand TV/US TV programme (Time Warner I seem to recall), so the images will probably never see the light of day in any public arena. My friend did show me a few of his images on his new 4K 32” Sharp monitor and as you say, stunning. The ones taken back in September last year, before 24 hour daylight arrived, where you have a starscape behind Mount Erebus, made with long exposures, were incredible. I too use the Nikon AR-3 release. I am looking forward to getting some good night shots up in the Western Ghat mountains near Ooty in Southern India, with the 240 and Noctilux, next week. I would have loved to go to Antarctica but I have left it too long now and probably could not manage very well, with my spinal arthritis. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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