Why I cancelled and then reordered a Leica M240 - and never buying Leica again

[Leonil]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

As some of you already know, Im still waiting for a Leica to be delivered to me in Australia. This is by no means a post about Leica's customer service, I hear its legendary but about how mistreated I feel from a dealer - a Leica Boutique who kept telling me over and over again "you will get your camera next month" and has been doing so for months.

 

My story starts with the M7 and loved how it shot, and after the M8 was released, I figured If I saved enough money I might be able to afford an M9. The M9 came and went and I still haven't had enough money - this is now something like almost 9 years of admiration and 5 years (now 6) of saving.

 

Now the M released at Photokina, but I was still dreadfully short of the asking price. But it was the incarnation I wanted - I ended up appreciating the fact that Leica now has a complete Digital camera.

 

In July I placed an order at Foto Riesal in Australia - convinced by a photographer who recommended them and that they had the best price in Australia and the world. I asked them what the lead time of the camera was for Silver - they said Id see on in November, but deffinately before Christmas. There was 4 people in the line, I was 5th, they said they get at least 1 silver a month, they wouldn't be surprised if I got mine in October since 1 silver a month was minimum they received.

 

Then my problems started happening as a Customer that I have NEVER, EVER experienced with any brand of camera before - the dealer started making up stories.

 

I placed my $1000 deposit, for a $7990 price. In September, they raised it to $8500 saying "We cant keep taking the hit for leica price rises any longer, we have no choice to pass it to the customer," they stated "due to the lowering dollar, this is the price Leica asked us to charge"

 

I called stores like Teds who stocked the camera, they heard nothing from Leica about some kind of price rise. Camera House and even from a friend who lived in the UK and asked Mayfair if they were issuing price rises.

 

But I stuck to my guns, $510 isn't such a big deal since its still cheaper than overseas right? And if I ordered with Teds or Camera House, Id have to go to the back of the line again.

 

I called the store - I'll get my Camera in November still - November comes and goes, I was a patient and polite customer, I waited for the call, and never called them. December comes - I decide I'll check if there is any news - I was ASSURED I'll get mine before Christmas. So I decided never mind, I wont ask for a refund, I'm sure these guys know what they are doing, I'll wait and I'll let the offers in Hong Kong and USA pass me by - I'll save a few hundred dollars but I'll get my camera later instead of right away. Good things comes to those who wait right?

 

It get to 1 week from Chrsitmas and my Dealer is having a sale - You can only get the sale price if you complete the order. So I call - they said I can have the price (for which Im thankfull its only a $80 more than $7990 instead of $510) BUT bad news, I will NOT get one for Christmas, I will: Quote "Deffinately see one before New Years, theres one more shipment coming, We will take care of you." They even go on about how rare silver is because there is a world wide shortage - but Mayfair had a couple, Hong Kong called me when I sent them an email saying they will send me one If I really wanted one - 5 stores in the USA and 2 stores in the EU sent me emails saying how they have excess stock. Was this another story they are telling me to reassure a sale from me?

 

I wait - Its now January 3, I let 3 leica M offers pass because I Was assured 3 times I will get a camera. So I call - but I stay polite and ask them will I see a Camera In January - I was told yea, call next week.

 

I called yesterday - January 8. They said I will not get my camera until "later in the month" and they assure me that the Shipment they know nothing about will DEFFINATELY I quote "definitely be earmarked for you, you are the last silver M we asked for, there's definitely one in the shipment."

 

So I call Leica - the person that answers, Dan, says that He doesn't know whats in the incoming shipment - so he cant tell me there is a silver camera coming, let alone one earmarked for me. I asked him how Foto Riesal knows that one is for me if they don't know whats inside the box until they open it. He didn't have an answer.

 

Then, after just calling around stores to see if there is possibly just a black leica lying around (I have a few silver lenses, why I chose silver) I guess I'll accept the inevitable and just took a Black Leica in the first place. One store has one in stock, sitting on a shelf since early December. In Australia no less.

 

I called to cancel my order with Foto Riesal - they said they wont and cant refund me $8000 because its too big for a card. they asked where I sourced my camera "I refused to tell them, my first moment of impoliteness to the dealer." he then replies with "yea whatever mate"

 

So Ive decided to cancel my order, and make a new order. I have invested in a new 50 Summicron, straps and all that while I waited for a Leica M. So I will get this camera, I will damn well enjoy it but Im going to tell the people of Leica, its not your fault, but this is the worst service I have ever gotten. If I Was told "you will get your camera earliest November, but latest February" Id have been an educated buyer and accepted the wait time. But I think I was fed enough falsities and made up stories from a Leica Boutigue.

 

Its going to take a long time for me to think about giving Leica my money again - let alone a Boutique who has a penchant of making up stories to keep me waiting. I should have kept calling around like I did back in June.

 

This is what happens when someone makes assurances for you and never delivers and then blames it on the supplier. If its dictated by the supplier, please just tell me and not make assurances.

 

Leo

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[earleygallery]

Maybe the store keep getting false promises from Leica? Supplies are very patchy.

[Leonil]

Maybe the store keep getting false promises from Leica? Supplies are very patchy.

 

When I asked for a ball park wait time, they say next month, when I call them on it the following month they say "we don't know, we are at the mercy of Germany, but you will get it next month, because you are so high on the top of the list."

[rirakuma]

Did Foto Riesel end up refunding you the money?

[BerndReini]

I'm sorry about your experience, but I would not let a bad experience with some bloke at a photo store sour my love for Leica. I had a similar thing happen to me when the M8 came out, I didn't give anyone a down payment though and because of my experience I probably never will. I ordered an M8 from a local camera store that has its headquarters in another big city. Every time a camera was shipped, the headquarters snatched it up for their customers, and so after four cameras shipped with me being first on the waiting list, I still hadn't gotten a camera. Mind you this was in early January after the initial Photokina announcement of the M8. I finally had enough, cancelled my order and went to another local camera store. I told them my story and they got me an M8 within a week.

 

I felt like there was some resentment from the sales rep at the first store, which I addressed without invitation. I told the lady that I have no ill feelings toward her personally, but I told her that she might want to take this up with the corporate office and tell them that they should consider running their business differently when working with a large group of connected professionals in one of the biggest markets in the US. I won't tell you the name of the store, but the ugly stepchild branch is in Los Angeles while the main store is in Chicago.

 

Anyways, I have been a loyal customer of the dealer that got me my M8 and I will support my sales rep as long as he works there.

 

I hope that all your troubles will be forgotten once you finally receive your M.

[pedaes]

I only have experience of UK dealers, but most were advising 12 months fairly quickly after launch and before the lug issue. Several threads here cover the delays. In the UK black is certainly readily available and now discounted. Surprised you got a discount straight away when they were in such short supply on your continent. Don't give up on a great camera as I am sure you will soon forget aggravation when you get it. Use your extrra savings for a EVF to enhance the package. Good luck whatever you decide.

[k_g_wolf ✝]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Since SONY has speeded up successfully, it seems LEICA is also speeding up. Stay tune,

delivery times might soon relax.

 

Best

GEORG

[thighslapper]

I would urge to to write direct to Leica indicating how you have been treated and the unsatisfactory behaviour of this Dealer.

 

No company wants a bad name because of the behaviour of its distributors......

 

Sadly, the bigger they are, the more they are likely to treat you like sh*t......

[IkarusJohn]

I would be very reluctant to pay a deposit. The local dealer wanted me to pay the full price for my Noctilux - I've not bought anything from them as a result.

 

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure in Australia, once you've paid a deposit, the dealer can't change the price.

 

Leica once tried to cancel an order one me - in that rare case, I had paid a deposit (it was a one off camera). I held them to the order, and they (reluctantly) made the camera for me.

 

I wouldn't blame Leica for your order woes - deliveries have been difficult. My strategy is to build a strong relationship with a dealer (in my case, Photo & Video in Christchurch), and they look after me with price and delivery. It's really all you can do.

[jaapv]

I would urge to to write direct to Leica indicating how you have been treated and the unsatisfactory behaviour of this Dealer.

 

No company wants a bad name because of the behaviour of its distributors......

 

Sadly, the bigger they are, the more they are likely to treat you like sh*t......

+1 Do write.

[hendriphile]

This could probably serve as the beginning of a thread about shady dealers. Many years ago in the camera district in NYC I looked at a used Leica lens and was quoted a price. My response was favorable & I told the salesman I'd be back shortly. After some research determined that the condition of the item justified the price, I returned and was told by the same salesman, "The price has gone up $200 in the last hour." The unstated message was, "You should have bought it before, now I'm going to diddle you."

 

We spend our years in the schoolroom of life learning bitter lessons. You are not alone.

[Naper]

In my opinion your beef is with the dealer. As others have said you should let Leica know of your situation. The increase in price is probably due to a currency exchange problem. The same thing happened in Canada. When you give a deposit you have made a contract with the seller. They can't change the terms of the contract. The dealer takes a deposit so the buyer is committed to the sale so it should work both ways.

[hoppyman]

I don't know your photographer friend and I haven't dealt with Foto Riesel. But whoever claimed that they have the best price in the world? That's exaggeration surely.

 

Generally the boutique stores don't discount Leica. That was my experience anyway when I bought my camera. Mine came from an authorised Australian dealer (not a boutique) and they honoured the first price quoted by another who then couldn't supply.

 

In September, Leica Camera Australia did increase the prices here. Actually by less than the amount of progressive additional costs that they had absorbed up until that point. That isn't much consolation maybe but what the dealer told you on increases is true. I know of at least one customer who prepaid his dealer 100% for a lens (not yet delivered I think) to avoid the increase.

 

Leica Camera Australia don't have visibility of individual customer orders. Supply doesn't arrive on an exact regular schedule either. Whatever they actually receive here (which comes via Singapore) they allocate each shipment across their dealer network against dealer orders. Inevitably there are still more orders than can be filled each time currently. It's up to the individual dealers how they supply who and when.

[Leonil]

Thanks for the advice guys - I really appreciate it.

 

Further update - I just got berated on facebook by the dealer - sent me a message on their own page none-the-less telling me that they had made no promises (then why tell me its next month, call back in a few weeks etc.) Was a very upsetting post because they weren't happy about the post I made.

 

Im going to take my post to Leica Australia and let them know how Im being treated, especially the facebook post.

 

In the end, I maintain that I knew I was going to have to wait - but to be told after a few months to wait "just one more month, deffinately, we will take care of you" to "if you keep your order you will get it before Christmas" when I told them I was thinking of getting my camera overseas, then being told "yea whatever mate" when I told them I didn't want to tell them where I sourced an instock Leica, and when asking for a refund because of the service they said "we don't do that, but I cant just give you the money back on the card, we have to EFT it to you which will take a few days" well.... that's not how I expected to be dealt with from a Leica Boutique. I got better service from Leica Hong Kong and Mayfair when I sent out emails canvasing availability.

[jaapv]

If you run a business you sometimes have to accept customer criticism no matter how unfair it may appear to you. Going all defensive only worsens the situation. Much better to try and resolve the complaint.

[Leonil]

If you run a business you sometimes have to accept customer criticism no matter how unfair it may appear to you. Going all defensive only worsens the situation. Much better to try and resolve the complaint.

 

Well, I was civil until the facebook post they sent me - now Im not so. They are dragging their feet with the refund. Saying that I have to wait for Management to authorise it and even then, they refuse to return 8k in one go because of fraud purposes.

 

Im going to have to call again - cause if this doesn't happen soon, I wont be able to get the camera I have on hold. Foto Riesal knows this too.

 

Leo

[Archiver]

Definitely write to Leica, not just the Australian office, but also to Germany directly. They seem to take good interest in the experiences of their customers in other countries. Bad form for Foto Riesel to send you a defensive Facebook message, too. And I have no idea how they cannot refund $8000 because potential fraud if the money is going back into the same credit card. Ridiculous!

 

I doubt that Foto Riesel has the 'best price in the world'. Vanbar in Collingwood has a price within $400 of the Foto Riesel price, Camera Lane in Melbourne is on par with the Riesel price, and Teds in Elizabeth St, Melbourne, actually had the M240 in stock a few days ago, although they are at $9200, which is retail.

 

Good luck with your situation. Waiting and saving for such a long time, only to be given repeated excuses by a dealer and delayed refund, is not on.

[Jeff S]

If your deposit is on a credit card, you should have the credit card company handle your refund. That's the benefit of using the card, so you don't have to deal with the vendor directly.

 

I once put a deposit on some audio equipment and the dealer kept promising to make delivery, but never lived up to commitments and ignored my efforts to obtain a refund. I called the credit card company and had a credit to my account shortly thereafter.

 

Jeff

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Leonil]

So Ive sent both Australia and Germany the same email, expressing my story I posted here and quoted to them the public facebook message they sent me, and my reply on the same page.

 

I admit that they didn't say anything that attacked me, but it was rude in tone, condescending, slightly sarcastic in one sentence and flat-out unapologetic. They also lied about what they told me over the last 3-4 months on the phone.

 

If this store is Sydney's Official Leica Boutique - then is it wrong that I expected so much more in service than this? Or should I only expect this legendary service at a real Leica store like in China, or Mayfair or New York?

[keithd]

Hi Leonil

Sorry to hear your story I had placed an order with the same company for a multifunction grip last oct and was told should only be 4 weeks or so come dec no sign of the grip. I gave up on them and ordered from Robert White in London 30 Dec and it arrived yesterday. I saved $200 on the estimated cost from Foto resel It is very difficult to get supply I tried to get my M in aux march april last year needing delivery prior to an os trip to europe in july no one could supply so I ordered it from Leicastore in Paris and picked it up on arrival along with a couple of lens. As has been stated by others it is a great camera and you should not let the experience of trying to purchase colour your thoughts on a wonderful instrument.