kendallc Posted January 2, 2014 Share #1 Posted January 2, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello everyone, This is my first time posting on the forum. Usually I just lurk around. But I need help with something that my best research couldn't answer. Perhaps someone will have a link for me or a good eye. I have the opportunity to pick up a model A and a iiic. When it comes to spotting a fake I have prepared myself enough to learn that an Elmar model A is likely not faked and that if I find an early serial number or some strange variation like those listed on collectiblend, that I am safe to pick it up and that if it has an early serial, it is a good score. But what about if it is an Elmaz or Anastigmat? How do I spot a fake of those? Most of the info I can find about fakes are of ii's and iii's. Maybe there is a good thread for it? Also the lens cap is seemingly wrong. It almost looks like either a very worn gold plated cap on a non-luxur body or it is a terribly worn normal cap. Any ideas there either? Second is the iiic. This one is a bit tricky. Because I have gone all up and down collectiblend looking at variations of iiic's and iiif's and I can't find a single one with this combination of physical characteristics. But I doubt this is a fake because the person has quite a bit of other Leica stuff and most is clearly legit. I am providing pics of both of them. Apologies for the photos (I didn't take them), but you can see enough on the iiic to know what I am talking about. Again huge thanks for any help that can be provided to ID these. Thanks a million! Kendall Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/219440-help-iding-i-mod-a-and-strange-iiic/?do=findComment&comment=2500004'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Hi kendallc, Take a look here Help IDing I mod A and strange iiic. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
kendallc Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted January 2, 2014 Oh and in case anyone wants to see the reference photos I have been going over. They are all at Leica Price Guide: estimate your camera value With the common iiic at: Leitz: Leica IIIc Price Guide: estimate a camera value And the common iiif here: Leitz: Leica IIIf (black dial) Price Guide: estimate a camera value Just in case someone wants to refresh their memory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendallc Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted January 2, 2014 Oh I forgot to mention that I don't have the serials (which would clearly help on the iii) because I haven't seen them in person yet and can't get that info until I do. On the model A though I just want to know how to spot a fake. If it is real then the lower the serial the better obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted January 2, 2014 Share #4 Posted January 2, 2014 Hello, try to get the s/n and it will be more easy. You have a thread up on the forum to get year of issue. Also there is thread about estimations, About the IIIc only the the issues under 400 000 have the stepped top under the wind off lever. Visit my web site to get more informations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendallc Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted January 2, 2014 Hello,try to get the s/n and it will be more easy. You have a thread up on the forum to get year of issue. Also there is thread about estimations, About the IIIc only the the issues under 400 000 have the stepped top under the wind off lever. Visit my web site to get more informations. Thanks for the links and the info on the iiic. And while the value is something I am always interested in, I am mainly interested in spotting it as a fake or not. I collect various types of items and Leica's are an item I have always been interested in, but the only one I ever bought at an estate sale turned out to be a fake. Sure it had some value and some people even collect fakes, but I wanted it to be real. And sure if I found something that I paid $50 for at a garage sale that turned out to be worth 50K I would resell it, but that is not going to happen. I know how to find the fake/real signs on the iiic (main give away being the roller cam follower and/or lack of strap lugs or ugly internal parts) but I can't find any info online on spotting a fake model A. Is this because there are not fake model A's? I have seen people speak casually of them in forums but I can't seem to find a photo of one or specific details. The reason I don't have a serial number is that it is at an estate sale. So I will need to make a quick decision on it being first in line. That is why I need some tips. The guy has quite a few other boxed Leica items so I will get some good stuff regardless. But what I want to know is if this model A is fake or not and any tips will help a lot. The cap just looks very suspicious to me being all brassy like that. Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 2, 2014 Share #6 Posted January 2, 2014 We can't tell you for sure from a fuzzy photo. The lllc is definitely genuine, they're not worth faking to that degree, but the 1A could possibly be a Russian copy. The lens cap isn't right that's for sure, but doesn't mean the camera isn't genuine. The best thing is to look at as many images of genuine cameras as you can, look at the details on JCB's website, and then you need to decide for yourself, but if in doubt leave it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendallc Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted January 3, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks James. I got to speak with the guy again and got more info. I also got some great help on another forum concerning the model A and it does seem to be genuine. But at $900 I will be passing on it unless it lasts at the sale long enough to get dropped half price. It is an Elmar 5-digit serial and $900 is only a price I would pay if the rarity justified the price. But $450 would be a steal and I think there is good hope it won't go till the price drop. The is only $250 with the common Elmar 5cm so I will pick that up probably. And it looks from the photo that there is another (longer) lens that he said he may even throw in with it (I don't know what it is but it can only be a good thing). Anyway thanks for the help guys. I'll send pics with what I come back with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted January 3, 2014 Share #8 Posted January 3, 2014 The IA looks genuine but looks also brassy and the value you are speaking above is on the high rate for the cosmetics shown and what do you know about the mechanics conditions ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 3, 2014 Share #9 Posted January 3, 2014 Agreed, the prices aren't that good, especially as you don't know the mechanical or optical conditions. Prices look very 'optimistic' if you have to factor in the cost of a CLA for each... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted January 3, 2014 Share #10 Posted January 3, 2014 It is an Elmar 5-digit serial The is only $250 with the common Elmar 5cm ...... Hi,as mentioned by JC and James IA is 99% genuine, there exist some russian fakes however those that I could see did have smaller rewind button and the shape of viewfinder is more round. This IA have been "upgraded", with 5 digit SN it should have mushroom type of release button. Btw - Elmar should not have any SN. 900$ is evidently too much.The IIIc seem to be an early postwar (smaller shutter dial). The lens is not Elmar however.$250 is a good price, looking at the condition of leather case (not too much signs of use) you may assume that the camera was not used heavily. I bet that shutter is sticky, at least for long times - CLA needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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