250swb Posted February 2, 2014 Share #161 Posted February 2, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) The point being that you, as the photographer, YOU need to be in control. At all times. Being 'in control' is knowing the difference between when to delegate responsibility, or when to micro manage a situation. If you need to micro manage all the time you are not in control, you are just a hamster running around a wheel, a slave to ritual, a fanboy of process. Understanding Auto ISO is to be in charge, knowing when to use it and why is control. Anyway, why use somebody else's picture to make your personal point, use your own, don't suck at the tit of somebody else's talent. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 Hi 250swb, Take a look here Auto iso coming.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pop Posted February 2, 2014 Share #162 Posted February 2, 2014 This whole "not knowing how to use a M camera on manual & needing Auto ISO" had my thinking. Auto ISO would of course rob you of the possibility of images such as these from telewatt's images: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/members/11492-albums3654.html. This is but one example. The point being that you, as the photographer, YOU need to be in control. At all times.Then you buy a Leica M camera, regardless of vintage. If you don't know how to use ISO alongside apertures and shutter speeds may I suggest you look into buying a Sony perhaps? It's a decent starting point. As I tell my clients… actually I don't, my work informs my client base, if I had to even consider explaining why, how & such like we'd be all manner of mire. This is becoming rather silly. Firstly, not everyone who wishes to use auto ISO is ignorant of the functions of the camera. Then, not everyone who wishes to use auto ISO wishes to do so all of the time. The examples by Telewatt demonstrate but one situation where one particular setting of the camera can presumed to be more useful than another one. Next, I fear you will start ranting about changing the aperture of the lens because someone makes good pictures at one particular setting, say 1:5.6. You still did not answer my question why you rant about that particular function and not about the built-in exposure meter. I'm glad I'm not your client as you seem to give advice which fits your own prejudices mostly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted February 2, 2014 Share #163 Posted February 2, 2014 !#@%!@# give it a rest, let people for them selves decide... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted February 2, 2014 Share #164 Posted February 2, 2014 The examples by Telewatt demonstrate but one situation where one particular setting of the camera can presumed to be more useful than another one. Presumed indeed. And these examples demonstrate that in many situations auto-everything is perfectly fine: Flickr: Camera Finder: Apple: iPhone 5 Flickr: Camera Finder: Apple: iPhone 5s Ooh, blasphemy: "iPhone", "auto", "colors"... Boo ! Boo ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted February 2, 2014 Share #165 Posted February 2, 2014 I still don't get any of this. At times the A on the shutter speed dial has its uses. I can never, ever, EVER see any need for an Auto ISO facility, not now, not ever. How complicated can using an M camera be? A bit of a contradiction. You can see the need for A, even though it allows the camera to select shutter speed based on the light meter reading. But you can't see any need for the photographer to want to lock down shutter speed and dof, and let the camera decide ISO based on the meter reading. Why is it not possible to imagine any need to lock in shutter speed and aperture and let the camera choose ISO? In your world it appears you're ok with letting the camera determine motion blur, but not graininess. In today's digital image world you've got a much better chance of improving an image that suffers from some noise than you do one that suffers from motion blur. Is it honestly the case that you can't see a possible use for this feature? Are all your photos taken in the friendly confines of a studio or do you just not fully understand the trade offs of exposure? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redge Posted February 3, 2014 Share #166 Posted February 3, 2014 Why don't you protest against the built-in exposure meter of the M, the MP and even the M6? Don't hold your breath on getting an answer, I've asked the same question three times in similar discussions and have never received a response from the people who are opposed to auto ISO. I say this as someone whose principal Leica, until the M 240, was an M3, and who continues to prefer to use a Sekonic to an in-camera meter. Doesn't mean that I expect others to do the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALD Posted February 3, 2014 Share #167 Posted February 3, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) But i'm doing this all the time... I just turn the aperture ring that's all. I can even see the shutter speed in the viewfinder. What else should i want? Well never mind i must be too stupid to comprehend the issue. I do understand your point of view. I am usually so busy that whatever I learn about my m9 I forget a few months later:D I think have auto ISO on but for some reason it does not work. Most likely because I have forgotten something. I really would like to know how to set it and forget it and switch to manual for the odd occasion. To do this would mean reading the excellent book on the M9 and the manual, which although written in that fine language I call Genglish. (German English) is a valuable resource. I would like the auto ISO as a feature because with the M9 I find that everything shot in low light basically has to be done at close to the f1.4 setting on my aperture ring, AND because I love the effect of my loved ones faces when rendered with this fantastic, surreal rendering lens, the Summilux 35mm. This means that I like to keep the shutter speed at high speed to eliminate camera shake /child movements? I need the camera to auto change the ISO upto the maximum 640 that users here on the forum recommend as I dial the exposure length to the fastest speed possible for the light at f1.4 while I slightly adjust the aperture ring closing it for depth of field improvement. It's easier then tinkering with the dial for me while composing. But I am happy to learn from you guys how I should be using the camera in those situations.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALD Posted February 3, 2014 Share #168 Posted February 3, 2014 I'm surprised you can't imagine why Auto ISO would be useful for other people even if you don't want it. But I'll try to explain it to you, although you do seem to have very set ideas. Auto Exposure (probably something else you don't like) varies the exposure by varying the shutter speed, but it is used by many people when the light is changing and the action is fast and furious. However, if a high shutter speed is needed to freeze the action, and a reasonable aperture is needed as well, then Auto Exposure doesn't always work as hoped, it is possible for the speed to drop too far. So to combat this you set the shutter manually, and of course the aperture you want, and allow the ISO to change the 'sensitivity' (gain) of the sensor, in effect another form of Auto Exposure by the back door. For cameras with a narrow usable ISO range, like say the M9, it can be used to fine tune the exposure (but some regard has to be kept for the general exposure speeds/aperture), or for a camera like the MM with a very wide usable range Auto ISO can be left to make big changes over a wide range of lighting conditions. Ideally you could combine Auto ISO with full Auto Exposure and set limits on upper and lower shutter speeds and minimum and maximum aperture, but Leica aren't there yet. So it is ideal as an option for journalists, concert photography, changing from indoor to outdoor quickly, or indeed any situation where the image is of vital importance and the relentless quest to pixel peep is less important. Some cameras can implement auto ISO better than others, because they have a wider usable ISO range. But simply having it forces the manufacturer to think harder about the usable ISO range and how it can be improved. So even if you don't use it yourself it is aspirational in terms of improving the next model in the pipeline. Steve Excellent explanation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALD Posted February 3, 2014 Share #169 Posted February 3, 2014 This whole "not knowing how to use a M camera on manual & needing Auto ISO" had my thinking. Auto ISO would of course rob you of the possibility of images such as these from telewatt's images: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/members/11492-albums3654.html. This is but one example. The point being that you, as the photographer, YOU need to be in control. At all times.Then you buy a Leica M camera, regardless of vintage. If you don't know how to use ISO alongside apertures and shutter speeds may I suggest you look into buying a Sony perhaps? It's a decent starting point. As I tell my clients… actually I don't, my work informs my client base, if I had to even consider explaining why, how & such like we'd be all manner of mire. Do you not see that auto ISO actually does give you MORE control of particular situations that for your desired look can't be achieved without having auto ISO ? If it's controlled by you whether you have auto ISO on or not why do you care if its implemented to make someone else happy. You are like the farmers dog, barking to keep the children away from the apple tree watching apples drop off and rot on the ground while never eating the apples yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted February 3, 2014 Share #170 Posted February 3, 2014 I hate that the single stroke wind lever positions the negative *exactly* where it needs to be to be fully covered by the projected image circle. I buy an M to be in complete control, as every GOOD photographer should be. I can wind my own film into position without these gimmicky mechanical indexing systems. If you can't judge how many turns of the advance knob is needed, can I suggest a canon or other such "automated" toy camera? It's interesting watching Leica users argue this one out - when I have the same stance against them on Autofocus etc as they do on auto ISO against Gilgamesh. The argument "I want sole control over what the camera focusses on..." being very common anti-AF sentiment. That despite me never having relinquished control over my AF cameras focus point. Each person seems to have their own tolerance level of technology and where that sits in this esoteric Leica-vision of photography. At some level of technology it's suddenly "too much", it is "bells and whistles" or "gimmicks". It's the same every time, the only difference is the level of tech that that individuals threshold happens to be. "Smile detect? Don't make me laugh (intended) - no serious photographer blah blah blah...." Leica themselves perpetuate this with the "purity" and "back to basics" or "photography distilled" spin. Only that level of tech which is represented in the latest M body is allowed. Anything else, even if it will come in the next body, is, for now at least, gimmicky and dilutes the essence of the M. Just an observation, I'm not looking for a fight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rirakuma Posted February 3, 2014 Share #171 Posted February 3, 2014 As mentioned many times before Auto ISO is an option not a necessity. If Gilgamesh wants to use full manual he's more than welcomed to. The implementations that Leica is making does not affect his style of shooting whatsoever but his comments implies that he feels he has superiority over Auto ISO users which I find annoying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted February 3, 2014 Share #172 Posted February 3, 2014 Leica themselves perpetuate this with the "purity" and "back to basics" or "photography distilled" spin. No company or person should be so arrogant to tell people what photography is. The camera is a tool, and must be so flexible to allow any individual to express what photography is for him/her. Flexibility is achieved by means of options. Each one of us is free to use or not any option, depending on how well it works for our very personal creative process. Art, Freedom, and Options are closely related words. Instead, too often in this forum I hear about limiting other people's freedom in the name of "purity"... Scary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted February 3, 2014 Share #173 Posted February 3, 2014 I still don't get any of this. Why do you need an Auto ISO? I am left scratching my head over this, 100% The last post said he / she was excited. About an Auto function? I'm horrified. Clearly you do not understand the relationship between ISO, Aperture, and Shutter Speed. Nor do you understand the benefits of Shutter Priority. There are many tutorials that can be found on U-Tube if you are interested. I do not think that any amount of explaining by other forum users could possibly help you. I suggest you read up on the matter before making nonsensical comments which may confuse others who are new to the M system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendriphile Posted February 3, 2014 Share #174 Posted February 3, 2014 Oh the fans on this site don't get excited, they just tell you "Its not for you" as an auto win button. Don't like the IR in the M8, well, its not for you - M9 fixes that. Don't like the LCD and the slow processor, well its not for you - the M240 fixes that. Every step of innovation Leica is addressed with, someone comes out to tell them not to do it, lets go back to film, lets watch Leica go bankrupt again. People need to get over it - Auto ISO wont destroy Leica, it will keep it alive by people like myself who have JUST entered the world when before I wouldn't have considered it. I for one am hoping for a fix - Auto ISO doesn't affect me, but why on earth should I dictate to another user to go away, since its "not for them" when Leica is desperately trying to innovate and become a worthwhile camera brand in the Digital age... if Auto ISO is the pathway, then why not bloody take it? Hell, you can turn it off right? +1 The exposure trinity: Aperture, shutter duration, ISO. As long as I can control 2 of these three, I'm fine with the camera setting the third one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted February 3, 2014 Share #175 Posted February 3, 2014 Let's hope that the next update is about more than just auto iso. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted February 3, 2014 Share #176 Posted February 3, 2014 ... You select the ISO yourself, as you do the aperture ring and the shutter speed button. At times the A on the shutter speed dial has its uses. I can never, ever, EVER see any need for an Auto ISO facility, not now, not ever. How complicated can using an M camera be?... Ahem, changing light conditions where I want to keep shutter speed and aperture constant? It is a tool just like anything else. If you do not wish to use that feature you do not have to use it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted February 3, 2014 Share #177 Posted February 3, 2014 Let's hope that the next update is about more than just auto iso. Yes. But where is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasf13 Posted February 4, 2014 Share #178 Posted February 4, 2014 I think it needs to be remembered that our digital cameras really only have one true ISO, and the rest is pushing/pulling the exposure, whether in-camera or in the raw converter. Allowing the camera to push the ISO automatically in-camera is a no-brainer, and autoISO with exposure compensation enabled in M mode is a logical implementation in a digital camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodluvan Posted February 4, 2014 Share #179 Posted February 4, 2014 I think it needs to be remembered that our digital cameras really only have one true ISO, and the rest is pushing/pulling the exposure, whether in-camera or in the raw converter. I believe this is incorrect. If it was true, you'd only ever need base iso, and pull exposure in the RAW-file in post. Obviously, that is not the same thing. At most RAW files, from even the best sensors, can be pushed 1-2 stops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted February 4, 2014 Share #180 Posted February 4, 2014 I believe this is incorrect. If it was true, you'd only ever need base iso, and pull exposure in the RAW-file in post. Obviously, that is not the same thing. At most RAW files, from even the best sensors, can be pushed 1-2 stops. It is correct. If you experiment with some exposures and post processing you will be able to determine it to be. I had to find out for myself also. Still, in-camera ISO adjustments are very helpful ( in my case necessary) to get aperture and shutter speed correct so as not to blow highlights or mash up shadows (both of which would be unrecoverable in post). Another point on this thread is that the digital M's make it very easy to adjust 2 of the 3 elements of the exposure triangle, shutter speed and aperture. But if you want to adjust ISO on a digital M you have to bring the camera down, push the ISO button and move the thumb wheel or dial. Pretty cumbersome IMO. if there were an ISO dial with a reading in the viewfinder there would be less need for auto ISO. But there's not... And a functional auto ISO would be a convenient alternative to another knob or wheel. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.