Keith (M) Posted December 4, 2013 Share #1 Posted December 4, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) What started out as a warranty repair to the DX reader on my M7 now involves damage to a pin in the shutter button mechanism. Quote from Solms There was pressure exerted to the release button while the camera was in off-mode and damaged the locking pin inside the release button. This repair will be charged, all other work is free of charge.and - damaged by pressure/impact damageCompletely bemused as to how this could have happened, I ask for clarification and received two pictures and an explanation:- Thank you for your mail and your inquiry about our estimate 735712. I have talked to our technician and he has shown and explained the defect to me. He has also made pictures which I will attach to this mail. On the picture 735712-2 you can see the hole of the release button. When the camera has been turned off, there is a little knob which will move out and will lock the camera in order to prevent that the camera is being turned on by mistake and the battery will be drained. This little knob fits into the pin of the release mechanism. Is the release button being pushed down while the camera is turned off (and this has to be done with some force) this little knob in the picture above will break out and damage the pin. Images attached below. I bought the camera new in Feb 2011 and the only time the camera has not been in my possession was two years ago when it was returned to Solms due to complete failure of all electrical/electronic functions. To my knowledge the camera has never suffered any impact of any kind, it is carried in a heavily-padded Lowepro camera bag and when in use it is slung around my neck. The M7 is one of three Leica film cameras I own and has not had heavy use – only twenty two films have been used in it. Therefore I find it very difficult to understand how the reported damage could have happened. I had a telephone conversation with Frau Frankl this morning and whilst sympathetic with my bemusement at how the damage could have occurred, it has been deemed outside the warranty work so will cost me €80. I can only think that it may be the result of being held very snugly in a small camera bag which might have exerted pressure on the shutter release - but not the kind of pressure that (to my engineering mind) would cause damage to a steel pin. So I can only warn fellow M7 users to treat their cherished cameras with even softer kid-gloves than previously! My thanks to CS at Solms, in particular to Frau Frankl for their prompt responses to my questions and to handling the warranty claim. If only their fellow Germans at Eriba Caravans would treat the electrical wiring faults made during assembly of my £20k+ Touring 540GT with the same efficiency instead of pulling every trick in the book in an attempt to deny responsibility, my faith in German quality might be reinstated! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/217863-m7-shutter-release-damage-by-pressure/?do=findComment&comment=2480255'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 4, 2013 Posted December 4, 2013 Hi Keith (M), Take a look here M7 Shutter Release - Damage by Pressure. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
250swb Posted December 5, 2013 Share #2 Posted December 5, 2013 Bad luck Keith, an intriguing problem though, I've never heard of that one before. It seems to me there are a lot of scenarios possible where the same thing could happen accidentally, but I wonder just how much force it would take? Looking at the pictures closer it looks like the shaft (pin) is just plated brass, so a steel locking pin will at least start to elongate or swage the contact area if any regular pressure is applied. I think your thoughts about a close fitting bags could be spot on. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_rufctr Posted December 5, 2013 Share #3 Posted December 5, 2013 Is it possible a person/child had a play with your camera without you knowing? I'm trying to imagine how a tight fit in a camera bag caused that damage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share #4 Posted December 5, 2013 Bad luck Keith, an intriguing problem though, I've never heard of that one before. It seems to me there are a lot of scenarios possible where the same thing could happen accidentally, but I wonder just how much force it would take? Looking at the pictures closer it looks like the shaft (pin) is just plated brass, so a steel locking pin will at least start to elongate or swage the contact area if any regular pressure is applied. I think your thoughts about a close fitting bags could be spot on. Steve On further reflection, I wonder if the engagement of the small locking pin into the slot was less than optimal, such that even quite modest pressure caused a partial disengagement and 'smearing' of the softer material? Is it possible a person/child had a play with your camera without you knowing?Definitely not. Nor pets or aliens! I'm trying to imagine how a tight fit in a camera bag caused that damage.You and me both - but see my first paragraph in this post for a possibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
}{B Posted December 5, 2013 Share #5 Posted December 5, 2013 Did the camera show any sign of this damage in the way it functioned? I'm assuming that the DX problem was entirely unrelated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted December 5, 2013 Can't say as I was aware of any change in the feel of the shutter release - not quite as smooth as my (younger) MP, but that very slight difference was not unexpected. One aspect is that the on/off part of the mechanism (i.e.rotating the collar from 'on' to 'locked') always felt slightly rough. Given that this is its second trip back to Solms under warranty, perhaps my M7 is a Leica equivalent to a 'Friday afternoon' product... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
}{B Posted December 5, 2013 Share #7 Posted December 5, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks. I think I'll give up using a soft release on my M7, better safe than sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted December 6, 2013 Share #8 Posted December 6, 2013 One aspect is that the on/off part of the mechanism (i.e.rotating the collar from 'on' to 'locked') always felt slightly rough. It probably came from the factory with the damaged pin. I like Leica customer services and the way they tend to stand behind their products but it is disappointing to hear that they are unwilling to take your word (or give you the benefit of the doubt) over an €80 repair – especially, when they are going to take the camera apart anyway to fix the DX problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digbyhp Posted December 9, 2013 Share #9 Posted December 9, 2013 Thanks. I think I'll give up using a soft release on my M7, better safe than sorry. Very wise. Using a soft-release on my M7 stuffed up the shutter button mechanism so after an expensive repair I've stopped using soft-release. There is a thread somewhere about why this can happen, something to do with the unique design of that part in the M7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 9, 2013 Share #10 Posted December 9, 2013 Very wise. Using a soft-release on my M7 stuffed up the shutter button mechanism so after an expensive repair I've stopped using soft-release. There is a thread somewhere about why this can happen, something to do with the unique design of that part in the M7. You can see from the photo's how it has happened. There is a steel pin (photo 2) that acts as the lock. It engages into the shutter pin (photo 1) which is made of brass. In the locked position heavy downwards pressure causes the steel locking pin to gouge a chunk out of the softer brass shutter pin. A soft release can put a constant mild pressure on the locking mechanism in the camera bag, so causing a similar scenario but by the steel locking pin gradually wearing into the brass until it fails. It is unique to the M7 because it is the only film M with a shutter lock (but maybe the digital M's work in a similar way, in which case a soft release may be asking for trouble). Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesurf Posted December 11, 2013 Share #11 Posted December 11, 2013 Actually a "more common than you think" problem when you use soft shutter releases and tighten them down on the M7, followed by turning it off-on repeatedly. I have to intentionally pull the shutter button up (a good practice if you use soft shutter releases on M7) and then turn off. Enjoy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted December 11, 2013 Share #12 Posted December 11, 2013 ...equivalent to a 'Friday afternoon' product... Which here in Germany is called a 'Monday product'. Keith, did you ever employ a soft release button with your M7? The force needed to damage the shutter lock is much less when a soft release button is present, due to the larger area of the soft release. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share #13 Posted December 11, 2013 Andy - no, have never used a soft-release on the M7, never felt the need for such an item. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincoln_m Posted December 14, 2013 Share #14 Posted December 14, 2013 Keith, Is this the same M7 with the loose fitting lens mount? You have had bad luck with this M7. I've not gotten round to having the optical DX reader "upgrade" but use the manual ISO setting. I do get the flashing lower led sometimes but move the dials around and it stops. I haven't found a shot that was exposed wrong yet but will perhaps send it in if I get a bad film and can trace it to the exposure meter. I do use a soft release on the M7 so I'll watch out for this potential issue you have with M7 in a tight bag. I hope Leica sort you out and your M7 doesn't have to visit Solmns for many years. Regards Lincoln Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted December 14, 2013 Indeed it is, Lincoln. The lens mount was adjusted two years ago when it went back to Solms for complete electronic/electrical failure. Hopefully there will not be a third trip... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthWater Posted December 15, 2013 Share #16 Posted December 15, 2013 A soft release was the first thought that came to my mind as well. I own a M6 and I noticed a faint metal on metal sound when releasing the shutter with a button in place. I would rather not risk a repair and have since stopped using them (on all of my cameras). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share #17 Posted January 10, 2014 Some welcome information from Solms Hopefully my less than three year old M7 will not be making a third trip there... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/217863-m7-shutter-release-damage-by-pressure/?do=findComment&comment=2506177'>More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 10, 2014 Share #18 Posted January 10, 2014 I wonder who they'll send your camera to? Sorry, cheap shot. I hope you're reunited with your camera shortly and all is well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share #19 Posted January 10, 2014 And there was me thinking it was only lenses that went astray! No tracking number received yet... Sent from my iPad Mini using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebidwell Posted January 10, 2014 Share #20 Posted January 10, 2014 The last time my M6 & 50mm summicron went back to Solms it was shipped through UPS. However when it was returned it came via DHL but I hadn't got a shipping number so was unable to track it to start with. I eventually found out the day and time it was due to be delivered and fair play to DHL they delivered it on time Regards Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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