Tips for getting proper exposure?

[Jakobben]

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Hi,

 

I finally received my M240 yesterday! Since then I've been out shooting as much as time has permitted. For the most part it has been a good experience. I haven't yet learned to work with the files on Lightroom to match what I basically got straight out of the M9 when I rented that this summer. I'm working on that, and hopefully I'll succeed.

 

My main question to you is on getting a good exposure in camera. Setting Auto-ISO and Aperture priority it seems to often under expose by 1-2 stops (judging by the Histogram on the LCD and moving the histogram/exposure in LR5). I can either do exposure comp., take a reading somewhere else and recompose, or move to manual control. If I move to manual however, I'm still relying on the internal metering for my exposure….

 

I'd like to get better at full manual control, and not rely on chimping every time. What can I do to get better at getting the exposure correct the first time (external metering is not an option for me)?

 

Thanks!

 

PS. Loving the camera and my new 50mm Summicron - I just need get used to it ;-)

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[sanyasi]

I only use manual exposure. Three points:

 

First, I disagree with the underlying assumption--that there is a right exposure. Some times I blow everything out, other times I look for a more moderate approach. There are choices to be made.

 

Second, display the histogram if you want guidance. So long as you don't totally blow out details that you want, you will find you have a fair degree of latitude in camera raw.

 

Third, I dislike the term chimping. It suggests that there is something wrong with looking at the image displayed on the back of the camera. You have it, so take advantage of it. I view is as just a more literal histogram. I often take a test shot in a new environment. Set the aperture, shutter speed, and ISO based on it, and then the exposure is how I want it, until I have a need to change it.

 

Good luck

[Jakobben]

I only use manual exposure. Three points:

 

First, I disagree with the underlying assumption--that there is a right exposure. Some times I blow everything out, other times I look for a more moderate approach. There are choices to be made.

 

Second, display the histogram if you want guidance. So long as you don't totally blow out details that you want, you will find you have a fair degree of latitude in camera raw.

 

Third, I dislike the term chimping. It suggests that there is something wrong with looking at the image displayed on the back of the camera. You have it, so take advantage of it. I view is as just a more literal histogram. I often take a test shot in a new environment. Set the aperture, shutter speed, and ISO based on it, and then the exposure is how I want it, until I have a need to change it.

 

Good luck

 

Hi sanyasi, thanks for your reply. I agree that there isn't a right exposure - it depends on what you want to portray with the image. My intention was to just get the exposure as I want it to be (which is what I perceive as correct in that moment).

 

I have been amazed so far at how much I can pull and push the M240 files, compared to my Canon and Fuji files - incredible recovery of highlights (which I thought were blown) and shadow detail. So I know I can miss by a fair bit an still correct it in post.

 

I use the term Chimping in the nicest possible way - I don't dislike it in general, it just think it is fun word to use (thinking of people who actually go "uh, uh, uh" when looking at their LCD . I do it all the time without feeling bad about it. My problem is when it becomes a necessity to do, just to get correct exposure.

 

I'll elaborate a bit more on what I hope to be able to learn. When I see something (moment, scene etc.) I want to capture, I want to be able to stay in the moment, and know my gear well enough to not let it get in the way. If I need to look down at my histogram to check exposure, it has gotten in my way. If I find that all my shots are have blown highlights, it has gotten in my way.

 

I like you comment about taking a test shot of the scene, and basing the manual settings on that. I try to do the same, but I find that it only really works for me indoors, or places with very even lighting (based on experiences with my other Fuji and Canon cameras).

 

So a more specific question I guess would be: have you (or can you?) come to a point where you can just look at a scene and think e.g. "f4, 1/500, ISO 200" at get the result you were envisioning (or get pretty close)? Or is that simply not possible with the way the human eye and mind perceives light intensity?

[Ecar]

You may want to try different metering modes on the M240.

I stick to Classic, which is effectively a form of center-weighted metering (think of a potato-shaped area in the middle of your finder - should be in the manual), just because it has now become 2nd nature and enables me to use the camera like any other pre-LV M rangefinder. YMMV.

[marcg]

 

My main question to you is on getting a good exposure in camera. Setting Auto-ISO and Aperture priority it seems to often under expose by 1-2 stops (judging by the Histogram on the LCD and moving the histogram/exposure in LR5). I can either do exposure comp., take a reading somewhere else and recompose, or move to manual control. If I move to manual however, I'm still relying on the internal metering for my exposure….

 

Whatever metering mode you use, you need to understand what the camera is metering. Otherwise it's a non-starter.

This is true of all cameras with built-in light meters - not just RF's

 

I think that most people use Classic - which you appear to be doing, metering on something else and then recomposing.

This generally much faster than exposure compensation as well.

[Tonki-M]

i always find the classic (center weighted) to be quite reliable. You just need to be aware of how light affects your metering. Taking a reading on a model's face with a strong backlight will underexpose your shot. There's also a spot metering on the M which is quite good for some situation. Regardless of different exposure type, the most important thing is that you know how they work and what scene/light situation affect which.

[Guest Gilgamesh]

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Some tips:

 

NEVER use Auto on the shutter speed dial. Take control of your pictures.

NEVER use Auto ISO. Control your ISO.

Check the histogram, it's a pal you need to befriend and use extensively.

There is an optimum exposure for the scene in front of you. Learn to "read" that scene. Weston had it right with his zone theory.

Expose for the highlights (typically), not the shadows.

Cameras see mid-tone grey (18%). Not black or white, just a mid tone grey. This is important. Understand what part of the image you have selected to meter. Most cameras allow you to assign patterns, Matrix or traditionally, centre-weighted metering where the camera pays more emphasis on the middle-ish section.

Like neg film, slight overexposure is far preferable to slight under exposure.

 

Use LiveView - it's excellent on the m240 - to assist you.

 

BTW, there's no such word as "gotten" in the English language - use every technique that enables you to work effectively and quickly and in control (NO auto ISO). This is known as work flow when we talk about PostProduction. It's the same in the taking of an image. Work out what facilities enable you to achieve the best results for you. I handle my Nikons in a quite different way to the M240 for example.

 

If you use Auto ISO and A on the shutter speed dial - 100% as it stands at present, you need to sell the camera. Or….. learn to control your image taking.

 

Auto setting on the shutter speed dial? Really. Get a grip. M.M.M.M.M.M.M.M. get the message? Learn the Leica M way, then ONLY when necessary, switch to the A setting. I've used it in fast changing lighting scenarios, maybe 10 times (200 from 50,000 images?)

 

I Chimp on many shoots (actually I set it on LV which I guess would be regarded as the same) this LV gives me all the info I need to move forward before I start, I then set my M, namely: shutter and aperture, maybe adjust the ISO, then I miss nothing at the outset. Use the facilities gifted to you on this camera.

[Guest jvansmit]

....BTW, there's no such word as "gotten" in the English language .

 

apologies for being pedantic but 'gotten' is an English word, and dates back to the middle ages

 

[rirakuma]

There is nothing wrong with Auto ISO and Aperture mode if you know how to use it. The thing is you need to understand the metering system as said above. I'm guessing you may have shot harsh scenes with bright background against dark foreground causing what appears to be an underexposed image. This is a limitation of the sensor not the metering system, its then up to you how you want to interpret the scene (middle, bracket, blow or underexpose).

[MarkP]

Well I would never say never, although I have yet to use Auto-ISO.

 

I use Auto-exposure at times, when I'm moving fast or in variable lighting, as an 'assisted-manual' setting: set up and scan the scene, lock in the determined shutter speed by half-depressing the shutter-release button (nice to be able to actually have the shutter speed displayed), recompose and shoot - at times this is much quicker than going fully manual and give more control than allowing Auto to work as a P&S.

 

I like the centre-weighted setting as I'm very familiar with how the light meter will respond when in this setting.

 

I agree that a quick glance at the histogram can be very useful.

[Ozoyo]

It is still a couple of weeks until I try my new M (which will be my first ever Leica), so I'll see how that affects my usual process.

 

For outdoors, where the light and situations changes fast I always use my D800E in Aperture priority mode, set my diaphragm then I play with exposure compensation if needed. I used to shoot in Manual Mode but found out that A mode is a lot less hassle, once you know your cameras reactions well.

Auto ISO is something I never use and truly dislike, I agree with Gilgamesh, it is IMO the first thing to set up in a given situation.

 

Now as I have said I haven't used my M yet but that is the way I am going to use it. Then who knows, I might have to change my habits all over again.

[stickan1]

I only use Manual + classic and use my hand as grey card and then correct from that depending on the subject. There is a large tolerance for underexposure with the M so exposure is almost never a problem. I assume that you use DNG all the time!

[sanyasi]

So a more specific question I guess would be: have you (or can you?) come to a point where you can just look at a scene and think e.g. "f4, 1/500, ISO 200" at get the result you were envisioning (or get pretty close)? Or is that simply not possible with the way the human eye and mind perceives light intensity?

 

I think you are now in "10,000 hour" territory--the axiom that it takes about 10,000 hours to develop the intuition of an expert in any field. I shoot in a lot of jazz clubs. There I know where I am going to start--shoot wide open, 1600 ISO, and about 1/180th shutter speed. If I am photographing a drummer, probably going to have to go to 1/350th if I don't want blur. Also there is usually a 1.5 stop difference between photographing a Caucasian and an African American musician, but even there there are variations.

 

One thing that will help. I find that I can comfortably set the ISO on these cameras at 1,000 and see very little noise, which means I only have to worry about two things--aperture and shutter speed. But this doesn't work on really sunny days.

 

Basically, in addition to observing the scene, I think you need to observe your settings closely while shooting if you want to develop the intuition. I also find it helpful to look at the data when I am in post processing.

 

To paraphrase the Rolling Stones, Time is on your side.

[Jeff S]

Well, with chimping* now possible compared to film, and no need for film development, maybe that's 5,000 hours.

 

[*assuming one guesses first, then chimps, and learns the difference]

 

Jeff

[JimKasson]

What can I do to get better at getting the exposure correct the first time (external metering is not an option for me)?

 

The histogram is your friend, as others have said. The built-in lightmeter is a relatively crude tool, no matter what the mode. Unfortunately, the histogram that you see before the moment of exposure in live view, or afterwards, in playback, is not the raw histogram, it's the histogram of an image with the white balance settings currently dialed into the camera.

 

The upshot of that unhappy situation is that you can't accurately tell when the raw file is clipped by looking at the histogram. The displayed histogram is usually conservative, in the sense that it indicates clipping before it really happens, but you can't count on that -- it changes with the lighting and the colors in the scene.

 

There are some things you can do to make the in-camera histogram approximate the actual raw histogram, but they take a little thought and experimentation, and in addition make the white balance of the in-camera displayed images look really weird -- usually way too green.

 

Using in-camera histograms for ETTR | The Last Word

 

Jim

[Jakobben]

Thank you all for your kind comments!

 

Ecar - I prefer to stick with Classic. It is the one that is most similar to what I'm used to from other cameras. I think I just need to get better at understanding how it meters.

 

marcg - yes, the metering and then recompose technique is also what I'm fairly used to from other cameras. I'm wondering if the reason for why I feel a change with the M is that I don't see any impact in the OVF as the take metering - probably just something I need to get used to :-). If this is also the most used technique for Leica shooters, it should be pretty easy for me to get into.

 

Tonki-M - yes, good point. Knowing how the metering system works is imperative - I need more shooting time

 

Gilgamesh - I agree in taking control of my images. I know how ISO, shutter speed and aperture works, and how they affect my look in theory. I'm trying to get better at previsualizing my scene, and determine what I need the three settings to be on (along with focus, but that is usually easier). This includes being able to read the scene - is there any good tool or technique to use to get better at reading a scene? My current method is basically to try and read it, get my settings, take a photo, look at the histogram and see if I was right or not (as Jeff S suggests).

You other comments surprise me a bit. Do you mean to say that the automatic modes are better on other cameras, or that being able to shoot in manual is special for the M? I could shoot in manual on any of my other cameras, so I don't think that is where the M stands out. I would like to get better in Manual, but I'm sure I'll jump to A once in a while for added convenience (the odd snap shot etc.). I see more of a difference going to the M by using the Rangefinder - all my other cameras have LiveView, and I prefer not to use it on them over their OVF/EVFs. The Rangefinder is, to me, the special "facility gifted" by this camera, so my hopes are that I will need to use the screen as little as possible, and learn to become good enough to not rely on it.

 

jvansmit - yes, "gotten" is a word. English is not my first language, but I'm pretty sure(gotten - definition of gotten by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.). Thanks though :-)

 

rirakuma - actually, my biggest problem so far has been overexposing my images, because I forget to change my settings (yup, the camera can't help me there ;-). It is habit I'll need to put down, but to better be able to do that, I'll need to get more comfortable with the full manual controls. Back when I was only using a Canon G7 I only shot manual, I just need to get back to that :-).

 

Ozoyo - That is very similar to how I've been using my other cameras for years (+ Auto-ISO though). I just found that the M tends to underexpose as mentioned, which is why I'd like to get better at shooting in manual. Using exposure compensation still relies on the internal meter, and if I don't trust that, then I have not improved my results. I'll probably need to get better at understanding how the metering on the M works (learning by doing).

 

stickan1 - Thank you! I had totally forgotten that you can use you hand as a gray-card! Great tip! (yes, DNG, with the occational +jpeg)

 

sanyasi - Thank you again. Yes, I need to put the hours into it. Get a systematic approach, and learn from each frame. One of the reasons I got an M was to force myself to slow down (too much running-and-gunning has come close to ruin why I make pictures in the first place). I need to keep reminding myself of this...!

 

Jeff S. - Good point

 

JimKasson: great link! Thanks!

[parasko]

I'm still waiting for my M to arrive but I remember when I (briefly) used the M9, you had to dial in +2/3 to achieve decent exposure. I thought this may have been a way to resolve your problem but from other comments it would seem that this is not necessary for the M240?

[Guest jvansmit]

I think exposure technique depends on the type of photography you most enjoy. I'm not an Ansel Adams type of guy, and aim for contrasty, quite dark photos. I'm fairly relaxed about perfect exposure, focus, etc, and enjoy the occasional accidental photo that is technically poor but still has meaning for me.

 

I mostly walk streets, often for hours on end, and for a fast day-time shot I don't generally find it practical to rely on manual exposure. Daylight can be so variable in urban areas, at least here in Hong Kong, that i'd be continuously spinning the aperture ring when I'd rather be looking out for shots so I mostly use auto. Laziness is also a factor...I'd be brain-dead if I had to continuously think about exposure for hours on end in day-time when the EV range can be so wide.

 

At night, I use auto if the ambient light is fairly constant, and quickly switch to manual if the light is very contrasty, say moving between brightly lit shop windows & then into shadow, flicking the shutter speed dial up & down automatically every few seconds depending on the light. It becomes almost instinctive after a while.

 

If you have the shutter speed dial on A, and then jam your index finger tightly into the angle between the dial and the camera body, and then spin the dial, it will land on a given shutter speed if you practice a little. For me this is 1/125, and then it's just a couple of clicks to get to 1/60 or four clicks to get 1/30 without even looking at the speed dial. I do this at night when I'm moving from a constantly lit area (using auto mode) into places where the light is more contrasty.

 

I've also found the M240 classic metering to be more reliable than the M9 & MM in that it seems to have a slightly greater bias towards shadow areas when shooting into the light. At least, this is my initial experience using wide-angle 15mm & 21mm lens.

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[Guest Gilgamesh]

LiveView is outstanding on the M240 - I use it to help with exposures at the outset, and when changing lighting conditions dictate.

 

I shoot in M on the D800, but dial in +0.3 exposure, it works for me. I also use S with longer lenses. Not really used A.

 

Over expose if in doubt, not under expose.

 

The info about what the histogram shows is indeed relevant and something I'd forgotten to mention.

 

Basically, like, anyone using "Gotten" will be shot at dawn. That also goes for, like, anyone starting a sentence, "basically" or like, adding "awesome" into sentences. Like.

[StephenPatterson]

Nice to see Jonathan Van Smit here at LUF...I'm a very big fan of your work in HK and PP.

 

As others have said I use A priority and classical metering but switch to manual if difficult lighting conditions prevail. I prefer classical metering because I know how the pattern behaves, and I know how to aim it at my desired reference. I don't use "Advanced" matrix metering, because I don't want an algorithm making exposure decisions for me. The good news is the greater dynamic range of the M240 allows more freedom in post, as long as you don't blow the highlights.