Jagged lines; is this normal?

[Olsen]

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Please see picture example. Is it normal that the M8 produces jagged lines and artifacts at 100% in PS?

[andit]

Hi Tom,

 

From looking at the picture, it looks like you just unpacked your M8. When it comes from the factory, it is set to shoot in jpg mode (can't remember at what resolution). The jpg compression can cause these lines to appear. Also, when coming from the factory, the optical lens coding is set to off. There is some pretty amazing software built in to counter these effects, depending on which lens you have mounted. For the camera to know what lens is in use, you need to switch this feature on.

 

There are a lot of threads here that also show you how to hand code older or non Leica lenses. This does make a huge difference.

 

Hope this helps you.

 

Andreas

[Olsen]

Andreas,

 

That could well be the reason. But please see my comparison of a max resolution M8 file at 100% in PS to a file from my 1Ds II,- also a 'right out of the camera' and at best resolution and 100% in PS. Both jpg files.

 

Tom

 

PS. I should add that the two pictures are taken under different light conditions - some 20 minutes apart late afternoon here in Oslo. The blue color on the M8 pictures is due to a blue glas in the background and different exposure.

[Guest sirvine]

Are you applying sharpening in camera? You really want to shoot RAW, by the way. It's the easiest way to control the output. To my eyes, the Canon JPG looks unacceptably soft, too.

[cbretteville]

Tom,

Velkommen!

 

Enjoy your new camera

 

- Carl

[furcafe]

Following this thread from a similar 1 that Olsen posted on the Rangefinder Forum (sans examples), I agree that the difference between the Canon & Leia files appears be a difference in the sharpening &/or contrast settings applied by the camera to the JPG files. It would be interesting to see a comparison of the raw files.

 

Are you applying sharpening in camera? You really want to shoot RAW, by the way. It's the easiest way to control the output. To my eyes, the Canon JPG looks unacceptably soft, too.

[AlanG]

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I took the liberty of applying a lot of sharpening - to the point that noise is emphasized. I don't see any jaggies.

 

 

Another thing that concerns me is that the specular highlights from the M8 image have a red edge on them.

[Guest sirvine]

Sharpening an already oversharpened JPEG is bound to produce unpleasant results. There is nothing apparently wrong with Tom's camera--it just needs to either be shooting DNG or the in camera JPG sharpening and contrast settings should be reduced. Once those changes are made, the Leica will show the Canon some very special DR and resolution.

[AlanG]

Sharpening an already oversharpened JPEG is bound to produce unpleasant results. There is nothing apparently wrong with Tom's camera--it just needs to either be shooting DNG or the in camera JPG sharpening and contrast settings should be reduced. Once those changes are made, the Leica will show the Canon some very special DR and resolution.

 

 

I sharpened an image that was under-sharpened not over-sharpened. Another post suggested that it needed sharpening. This was the Canon file not the Leica image file. The Leica file was already sharpened in camera but I don't think it is over-sharpened. The point was to see if the shapening would produce similar jaggies in the Canon file. It didn't. Are you suggesting that the jaggies are only a result of in-camera jpeg processing on the M8 and will not occur with processed raw files? Why is that?

 

I suspect we'll be seeing some more sophisticated comparisons from Tom Olsen before too long.

[Olsen]

None of the files was sharpened. Just 'standard' out of the camera. I don't agree that the 1Ds II files needs to be sharpened up; but that is a 'matter of taste' issue. Most pictures I see on the Net are all too up-sharpened. I had to take short phone call in between the two shots and suddenly light had changed.

[Guest sirvine]

I sharpened an image that was under-sharpened not over-sharpened. Another post suggested that it needed sharpening. This was the Canon file not the Leica image file.

 

Sorry, Alan. I wasn't looking closely enough. My mistake.

 

Are you suggesting that the jaggies are only a result of in-camera jpeg processing on the M8 and will not occur with processed raw files? Why is that?

 

Yes, but I honestly haven't shot a JPEG on my M8 since the first day I owned it. I have never seen any jaggies in an M8 DNG file except some aliasing or moire of the extreme pixel peeping variety. To me, the aliased edges on highlights are classic artifacts of oversharpening and that's what I thought Tom was asking about in his M8 images (for example, the top edge of the highlighted face of the white box).

 

And, yes, I see jaggies all over that sharpened Canon image that you posted. The glass object on the leftmost side of the frame is almost entirely composed of them.

 

Nevertheless, I recuse myself from the debate since I am very far from an expert on in-camera processing and compression.

[AlanG]

And, yes, I see jaggies all over that sharpened Canon image that you posted. The glass object on the leftmost side of the frame is almost entirely composed of them.

 

Nevertheless, I recuse myself from the debate since I am very far from an expert on in-camera processing and compression.

 

My guess is these are not jaggies but blurred detail in a silver (not glass object.)

 

I think we need to look at something that is in focus. Look at the edges around the bowl in the foreground. It has jagged edges in the M8 shot and not in the Canon shot. I believe that is the point of the original post.

 

No need to debate anything. It is just an observation of these shots. Whether similar results would happen from raw files doesn't require speculation or expertise either. Just simple testing. As for comparing in-camera results, that is easy and is what we have here. But I amost always shoot raw and agree that it is generally the way to go when best quality and adjustablity is required. Some raw conversion software can improve various features in an image (vignetting, C/A, distortion, etc.) So perhaps some conversion software improves the image jaggies too.