Leica M Digital or Fuji X help please?

[Les Paul]

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Hello forum. I joined the other day because i am thinking of buying an m8 or maybe m9 if cheap but my attention has now turned towards the Fuji Xe1.

 

I have been reading lots of reviews of the fuji and they all say it is a very nice camera. Problem is some internet reviews says the fuji lenses are as good as leica lenses but 6 times cheaper. Do you think this is true or not.

 

I would like to read what the members think of this and i do under stand that you may prefer leica but as the cost of the fuji kit is so very much cheaper should i still purchase the leica.

 

I will try to find the internet reviews pages and put a link for it.

[Les Paul]

Have found some of the review below

http://www.frankdoorhof.com/site/2013/08/fujifilm-x-e1-vs-leica-m9/

And

http://www.streetphotographyblog.co.uk/fuji-x-e1-initial-impressions-as-a-manual-street-photography-camera/

And

http://kenrockwell.com/fuji/x-pro1.htm this test is for xpro1 but is just the same as xe1

[TomB_tx]

If you are starting out "fresh" with no lens collection or shooting style preference there is no reason not to consider the Fuji, or other similar cameras. The user experience is quite different, but all can be enjoyable and give very good results. There are differences in lenses, but only with experience will the subtle variations become real preferences. I've used Leica and other cameras since the 1960s, and I find the differences more in the shooting experience than the results. With my old eyes now I can focus the Leica rangefinder easier than a manual-focus image, but if you start out with autofocus and the new focusing aids you may find just the opposite.

Because I have a lot of older lenses for 35mm film cameras, I wouldn't want a smaller-sensor camera because the effective field-of-view is different using these lenses with a smaller sensor. For telephoto it may be an advantage, but I use wide-angles more often.

I recently added a Fuji X100S as a carry-around "people" camera, and I have been very pleased with the results. It has the advantage of a fixed-lens so the sensor and image processing are optimized for that one lens. I don't know how well the various lenses are handled by the Xe1, but Fuji can be quite good.

Yet I still enjoy using a Leica M camera (film or digital) more, after all my years using them nothing else is quite like it.

[Les Paul]

Thankyou Tomb for your advice.

 

I carry a canon 20d but is heavy by half and is just 8mp.

 

Can you explain what makes your leica like nothing else please.

[LucisPictor]

Hi.

I have an M8 and a Fuji X-E1 (which replaced my Sony NEX-7, because the Fuji is more of a cam, whereas the NEX has something of a Nintendo game. No offense!!)

 

The X-E1 is an amazing cam and a great performer. I love it and it's probably the cam I use the most ATM.

The image quality is higher than the one of the M8. Period.

(Which is no real surprise if you consider the sensor generation.)

 

And the Fuji XF lenses are fantastic. I seriously don't see much difference between them and Leica lenses (and surely not between them and Voigtländer lenses) performancewise.

 

But although the X-E1 mimics the looks of an M-Leica pretty successful and is also well built, it's not a genuine rangefinder cam. Shooting with an "M" still has that special "something" that is extremely hard to define but which every M-user knows.

 

Perhaps it's like driving a Porsche 911 instead of a faster Nissan sportscar, if you know what I mean.

[thighslapper]

If money is no object ..... get a Leica ...... but bear in mind even second hand Leica lenses are expensive.

 

If money is a consideration, get a Fuji or similar ..... the results will for all practical, real world situations will be similar and you won't be missing much.

 

It's nice to have a Porsche ..... but will you get to work any quicker ??

[andybarton]

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It's nice to have a Porsche ..... but will you get to work any quicker ??

 

No. But you will get to work in a Porsche.

[Gibbo]

No. But you will get to work in a Porsche.

 

 

We love to believe in perceptions, don't we

[AbbeyFoto]

Les

 

I have been using Leica M film cameras for some time and I have greatly enjoyed the M-way of photography. I was using SLRs before the M's and still use DSLRs. I have kept my M8.2 despite it's issues (cropping and IR sensitivity). I have played with the Fuji system and it has a lot going for it. Both the Leica M-system and the Fuji X-system will facilitate great photography if they do not get in the way of your projects. Much will depend on your past experience and your expectations.

 

The Leica M8 (and M9) are digital rangefinders, even the x100(s) and X-Pro are not truly rangefinders as focusing is not manual in the manner of Leica. With the Fuji cameras you, at best, aim to control where the camera focuses; with the Leica you are in full control in that you choose where to focus and have to adjust the lens to focus on that point.

 

The X-E1's EVF or live view goes one step further away from the rangefinder concept. It is even more DSLR-like. (The Leica M-240 allows one to combine the traditional rangefinder with a EVF or Live view, but it's price, I assume, puts it out of consideration.) EVF cum Live view (or DSLR) is a different path to creativity.

 

Leica M's are Manual or Aperture priority cameras as aperture must be set manually. No chance of shutter priority or programme mode there.

 

The Leica M8 will require you to be in control - though it will do a good job at aperture priority. The Fuji is happier to be control of many settings; in particular, you have to work to get control of focusing. Which bests suits your photography?

 

The Fuji x100(s) physically feels like a small Leica, that is not the case with the X-E1 or even the X-Pro.

 

Images have very different characters on the M8 and Fuji system. I would say the M8 images are more subtle but Fuji images have more "impact" (especially if you opt for Velvia). Which best suits your photography?

 

As to lenses, overall Leica wins hands down on quality but looses on price. It seems generally agreed that the Fuji 35mm for the X-Pro/X-E1 and 23mm on the x100(s) are fine lenses. Top Leica lenses are unmatched but are expensive and challenge the photographer to exploit their full potential.

 

Unless your photography is leading edge I have to suggest a X-E1 with 35mm or a M8 with 35mm Summarit will allow you to do great photography. If you want to be in control then choose the Leica. If you need a more affordable system choose the Fuji.

 

I have to suggest some self reflection - Leica cameras come with that "pure" DNA (even in the M-240) of a classic photographic experience. Fuji is a maverick, but loveable, company.

 

Whatever, enjoy.

[earleygallery]

Thankyou Tomb for your advice.

 

I carry a canon 20d but is heavy by half and is just 8mp.

 

Can you explain what makes your leica like nothing else please.

 

The 20d is a perfectly good camera. Has the fact it only has 8MP held you back in any way?

 

Buy an R lens or two.

[tookaphotoof]

In the process deciding if I want to keep or sell my dslr (5d2) now. I'm tired of lugging it around all day long. The mp is the only camera I now have with me every day.

 

I have been looking at the ME and XE1 or 2.

The Fuji seems a great deal, but the question is if it will give me the same fun as with a rangefinder.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Les Paul]

Thank you every one. I see with what you all say a new problem with choosing my new camera is a question of the focus method.

 

With me never using a rangefinder before how different is the experience of using it to a evf. I like the idea of making photographs with manual focus with apperture priority.

 

The 20d is a fine camera though is large and is very obvious to other people around. And it sounds like an old tractor when taking photographs.

 

Thankyou as you have all given me more cause to think about my new camera. My budjet is about 2000 or 2500 pounds for canera and one lens about 50 mm after crop sensor size.

[-Lss-]

With me never using a rangefinder before how different is the experience of using it to a evf.

You should try it to see how different (and more importantly, better or worse!) it is for you. It's really a question of how you view the scenes and subjects you photograph. For me, the rangefinder or any non-TTL viewing works better in generic settings and when I concentrate on the interactions of the elements in my composition. A TTL system generally works as well as or better when I concentrate on a single subject. Others have different preferences.

 

The key aspect to understand is that with a rangefinder you are framing and focusing without looking through the lens. (This differs from your Canon and the Fuji you consider.) You look at the scene basically with the naked eye and framing lines and a focus patch gets overlayed in your view. When you focus on an object at a distance, you see that it pops into focus. What you do not see is the actual effect of the lens. You therefore need to reduce the scene in your head and apply camera/lens settings accordingly. It may be a daunting thought, but should quickly become pretty easy.

 

With a TTL camera, you are more or less looking at the reduced scene (depends on the aperture, whether you view at full aperture or stopped down, the focusing screen, etc.) and basically either adjust it WYSIWYG - or look around the camera to judge the scene to see what you want to change. The latter is what you do with a rangefinder camera even when you peek through the viewfinder. In that case the only difference is that the framing and focusing are integrated into that same view.

[earleygallery]

Thank you every one. I see with what you all say a new problem with choosing my new camera is a question of the focus method.

 

With me never using a rangefinder before how different is the experience of using it to a evf. I like the idea of making photographs with manual focus with apperture priority.

 

The 20d is a fine camera though is large and is very obvious to other people around. And it sounds like an old tractor when taking photographs.

 

Thankyou as you have all given me more cause to think about my new camera. My budjet is about 2000 or 2500 pounds for canera and one lens about 50 mm after crop sensor size.

 

For your budget you would have to consider an M8 + a 35mm lens (Leica Summarit or older Summicron, or a Voigtlander or Zeiss lens).

 

You would also need a UVIR filter and get to know a lot about post processing if you don't already.

 

You can start using aperture priority and manual focus right away with your 20D. OK the Leica would be easier to focus with a rangefinder than the 20D's plain screen.

 

If you're just after a more compact system then there's almost too much on the market to choose from, and you really need to see/hold/try them to find what feels right for you IMHO.

 

There's no doubt a Leica M8 is still a great camera and capable of excellent results, but I don't think anyone here would disagree that it's not without its quirks and isn't particularly 'user friendly'. Again, maybe get to a Leica dealer who has some s/h stock and give one a try?

[-Lss-]

There's no doubt a Leica M8 is still a great camera and capable of excellent results, but I don't think anyone here would disagree that it's not without its quirks and isn't particularly 'user friendly'.

It is very user friendly in my opinion.

[earleygallery]

It is very user friendly in my opinion.

 

Well it's an opinion.

 

Compared to other many other system cameras the M8 requires filters to block IR and avoid purple blacks, it has a rather basic built in meter which requires some thought in use (I mean compared to multi mode/matrix metering in many other cameras), it's generally agreed that jpegs from the M8 aren't very useful so one has to learn how to PP the files to get the most from them, as well as the general issue of a newcomer to Leica learning to use a rangefinder and understanding how the framelines are optimised etc. etc.

 

One will adapt to these issues and then using the camera becomes second nature, but I still say it's not a user friendly camera for someone picking one up for the first time.

[K-Photo]

I had a M9-P, still have a Monochrom and owned a X-Pro and a X-E1 at the same time.

 

With the same lens and reduced to a digital picture, the X-Pro comes even close to the MM.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/304221-fuji-x-e1-compared-m.html#post2528752

 

It is a different result with higher ISO and when it comes to printing. Then the MM shows its advantage.

 

Focussing with a manual lens and the Fuji with the magnifier, but without image stabilization, can be a pain in the a.. sometimes. Using UWW like a Voigtländer 15mm for example will show smeared details in the corners.

But Fuji offers great autofocus lenses, too.

 

When it comes to color images the files from the Fuji are looking better with higher ISO and are easier to be pushed at base ISO, too.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/304221-fuji-x-e1-compared-m.html#post2528796

 

But I like to work with a rangefinder, that is why I use Leica.

 

Jochen

[JuanLeon]

I do have both, XPro1 and M 240, but barely use the Fuji since getting the Leica back in April, mainly the week or so it took to repair the lugs thing:cool:

[Les Paul]

Thank you. With what i have read there is also the problems of the M8 history of sensor troubles - red lines dead pixel and all. Leica cant change the sensor now for new ones.

 

So maybe i could look at this now as if i owned an xe1 now and wanted to buy an m8. Would this be seen as a step backwards in the wrong direction.

 

This is a big spend for me.

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[earleygallery]

Thank you. With what i have read there is also the problems of the M8 history of sensor troubles - red lines dead pixel and all. Leica cant change the sensor now for new ones.

 

So maybe i could look at this now as if i owned an xe1 now and wanted to buy an m8. Would this be seen as a step backwards in the wrong direction.

 

This is a big spend for me.

 

Sensor issues were on early cameras and resolved (apart from the type of faults that could happen to any camera/sensor).

 

I wouldn't touch the Fuji simply because I hate EVF's. But they're completely different cameras/systems, the choice can only be a personal one IMHO.