Strange white spots on M9 sensor?

[erl]

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Don, clearly you are a disgruntled customer and I am sure with good reason. That needs to be addressed.

 

I don't know what steps you have already taken to be satisfied, but your reasonable satisfaction is, I would expect, a right. Ignoring all the internet noise about this issue, I would urge you to communicate directly with Leica for a satisfactory solution or offer. Mouthing off on the forum (as opposed to reporting) will only make you feel more aggrieved.

 

In typical Leica fashion, a solution will (eventually) be forthcoming. Regrettably, Leica is not a racehorse in this arena. Something we have to live with. I know all about that frustration, living on the other side of the world.

 

As a dedicated M9 owner, I too am apprehensive but have decided to 'live it out' till the end. I doubt I will spend more money on the M9 if required, but will rather find another shooting solution.

 

I wish you the best outcome in your particular scenario.

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[Malvolio]

Glad I swapped my M9 last week for a new M240.

[bocaburger]

The funny thing is I had no intention of going to the M240, the M9 was perfectly ok for me. I believe this is the first time GAS has ever had me dodging a bullet instead of taking one between the eyes. But I have empathy for the aggravation others are or will be going through, and I'm definitely not gloating. So far the historical odds are not in favor of us M240 owners coming away unscathed either.

[erl]

The funny thing is I had no intention of going to the M240, the M9 was perfectly ok for me. I believe this is the first time GAS has ever had me dodging a bullet instead of taking one between the eyes. But I have empathy for the aggravation others are or will be going through, and I'm definitely not gloating. So far the historical odds are not in favor of us M240 owners coming away unscathed either.

The reason I am not jumping from the frying pan into the fire!

 

At this point, 'the devil you know is better than the one you don't'.

(Don't you hate cliches )

[Ecaton]

Mmmhh, replacing the sensor of my 5 year old M9 should cost me as much as a brand new Sony A7II/r/s? Do I have to learn to like the Sony know? But I don`t want to, Leica. And neither does the M240 grow on me.

[Guest]

Mmmhh, replacing the sensor of my 5 year old M9 should cost me as much as a brand new Sony A7II/r/s? Do I have to learn to like the Sony know? But I don`t want to, Leica. And neither does the M240 grow on me.

 

No, I don't think it should.

Let's see what they come up with.

[erl]

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All good things come to those that wait.

(another lousy cliche)

[Don Morley]

Don, clearly you are a disgruntled customer and I am sure with good reason. That needs to be addressed.

 

I don't know what steps you have already taken to be satisfied, but your reasonable satisfaction is, I would expect, a right. Ignoring all the internet noise about this issue, I would urge you to communicate directly with Leica for a satisfactory solution or offer. Mouthing off on the forum (as opposed to reporting) will only make you feel more aggrieved.

 

In typical Leica fashion, a solution will (eventually) be forthcoming. Regrettably, Leica is not a racehorse in this arena. Something we have to live with. I know all about that frustration, living on the other side of the world.

 

As a dedicated M9 owner, I too am apprehensive but have decided to 'live it out' till the end. I doubt I will spend more money on the M9 if required, but will rather find another shooting solution.

 

I wish you the best outcome in your particular scenario.

 

Erl, I have tried EVERY avenue with Leica London and Wetzlar first, all I can do now is warn others, seek legal redress in the UK, and walk away from Leica who sadly are no longer the honorable company I used to know and love. What I will not do however is just lie down, shut up and take it and I hope others do not either. Don (Author 24 books, former Sports Photographer Of The Year, Three times Moto9ring Photographer Of The Year etc)

[Guest]

I with Don Morley on this. So far Leica has posted its policy only (as far as I know) in this thread, now buried within the current 24 pages here. The policy statement by Leica is now so time-consuming to find that people have to ask the page and post number, as someone has done earlier. This indicates that Leica is trying to give the least possibly publicity to this problem while being able to say that the Company has offered a solution. Considering that the problem can affect every CCD M-camera this is not acceptable: Leica should send an e-mail to every owner of the cameras of these cameras, as well as posting the policy statement to the Leica Camera AG website (because some owners of second-hand cameras may not be reached. Someone should start a new thread, starting with a quote of the Leica policy statement that was posted by JJ Viau. If no one does, I'll probably do it.

 

The policy itself is also inadequate. The corrosion/de-lamination problem is either a manufacturing fault or a design fault. Such a fault should be subject to a recall. Leica owners should not have to wait for Leica to be shamed into a recall or forced into one by legal action in the form of a class action suit.

 

Some people may argue that Leica can ill afford a recall. Maybe, but somehow I don't have that much sympathy for a small company that has just spent a huge amount of money building new facilities in Wetzlar — what one would call a "campus' — while not spending enough on R&D. That is what it is: with more R&D at the design this problem would not have come about; spending R&D funds now could solve it — although it would now necessitate a recall. The R&D that is needed is spending funds for work to be done by technical consultant and by suppliers, for Leica cannot suddenly acquire all the staff necessary to this themselves.

 

My own situation is that I have an M9-P and an M-Monochrom, both of which have had sensor replacements because of de-lamination. As I am in humid climes for at least 6-8 months a year, I would expect that I would have de-lamination problem again, unless Leica finds a permanent solution. Trading up to an M240 does not interest me because, like some other people, I don't consider going from the M9 or an M-Monochrom to be an "upgrade", although that is not an argument we should be pursuing here. Apart from whether it would be an "upgrade" or not, the cost quoted by someone above in the UK makes it unacceptable as well.

 

I'm waiting for the recall...

Edited December 2, 2014 by not_a_hero

[jaapv]

The part I disagree with is the R&D bit. The glass is sold by Schott as suitable for high-end optical applications, like camera sensors. I think Leica should be able to trust the description of a company of Schott's standing.

 

The whole point of this thread is that we are able to forgive Leica for technical glitches like this -they are often beyond their control- , as it is clear that these are unique niche products that cannot be as robotically smooth as mass-produced mainstream cameras.

 

The complaint here is that Leica must therefore be seen to stand fully behind the product and the customer. Up to now that has always been the case, but this situation appears to break that trust. For the time being. I am still hopeful that the the faction that supports the Leica legacy will prevail over the bean counters.

 

Long term customer satisfaction wins and short-term gain loses.

We have a saying over here that teaches that a good reputation comes on foot and leaves on horseback....

Edited December 2, 2014 by jaapv

[wattsy]

Mine appeared exactly as JAAP described - a line that looked like a scratch but in examination was a row of bubbles. Mine is an MM and it only took 3 weeks, perhaps they have more of those in stock.

 

I think that was then. I think they have been getting increasingly busy and, even though I'm told they have the sensors (Monochrom ones at least), I have also been told "January" (to start the job) "at the earliest". I'm irritated less by the problem itself and far more by the timescales involved in getting the repair completed. My sensor was originally diagnosed with a problem in the first week of October but more than a month went by (whilst two key members of staff took nonconcurrent two week holidays) before any action at all was considered or taken.

[jaapv]

Yeah - you should send a latter-day Maggie over to break the German Unions:p;)

[wattsy]

Incidentally, I have reflected recently that, of the four M camera bodies I bought new between 2011 and this year, three have required lengthy service in Germany. I also bought a new lens in that period that required two visits to Solms before it was up to scratch. If this record is in anyway indicative of the experience of owning a modern Leica product I fear for the future of the company because it strikes me as unsustainable, both from Leica's and their customers' viewpoints.

[wattsy]

Yeah - you should send a latter-day Maggie over to break the German Unions

 

Or maybe Leica could employ a few more staff in customer care?

[Paul J]

Erl, I have tried EVERY avenue with Leica London and Wetzlar first, all I can do now is warn others, seek legal redress in the UK, and walk away from Leica who sadly are no longer the honorable company I used to know and love. What I will not do however is just lie down, shut up and take it and I hope others do not either. Don (Author 24 books, former Sports Photographer Of The Year, Three times Moto9ring Photographer Of The Year etc)

 

Don, You do not need to justify yourself or make excuses. This situation is highly unacceptable and I will not be laying down and hushing up. No one should expect anything other than a full resolve. As it stands, the product that buyers bought in good faith can not withstand an adequate life due to defective manufacturing and/or design.

 

It appears Leica has two options:

 

1) Recall the camera and replace the defective part with one of equal optical performance that does not corrode.

2) Recall the camera and furnish the buyer with another model that can expect an adequate life.

 

I have trusted in Leica to provide tools that are sound and effective. I invested a great deal of money in these products as the tools of my business. While I very much hope the company rises to the occasion, and deals with matter appropriately, my confidence in the brand and its future products has greatly diminshed. As of this moment, I consider myself no longer a customer of Leica until such time they can honour their products and I certainly can no longer recommend the company and their products to my colleagues and peers.

[Guest]

Ian - not encouraging to read about your lens. A year ago I had a Summicron-35v4 serviced in Solms and, after only three weeks, it came back in apparently perfect condition. However, today I was out shooting with it and found that the f-stopring was seizing up so that it was difficult to set the f-stop that I wanted: when you turned it it would go post the desired f-stop in one direction, and turning back the other way it would overshoot in the other direction. It was as if the lubricant was gone. And I haven't used the lend in unusually dusty conditions. Not encouraging.

[jaapv]

Or maybe Leica could employ a few more staff in customer care?

 

They still would go on holiday over Christmas and in August...

[wattsy]

They still would go on holiday over Christmas and in August...

 

This was in October. Maybe they all go to the Beer Festival in Munich?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

Possibly Although there is an Apfelwoi (read Cider) festival in Frankfurt which may influence attendance as well

 

Seriously. Normally the wait is induced by hiccups in the spare part supply, although I understand that things are quite busy right now - from before this sensor thing breaking though-

[Paul J]

The part I disagree with is the R&D bit. The glass is sold by Schott as suitable for high-end optical applications, like camera sensors. I think Leica should be able to trust the description of a company of Schott's standing.

 

The whole point of this thread is that we are able to forgive Leica for technical glitches like this -they are often beyond their control- , as it is clear that these are unique niche products that cannot be as robotically smooth as mass-produced mainstream cameras.

 

The complaint here is that Leica must therefore be seen to stand fully behind the product and the customer. Up to now that has always been the case, but this situation appears to break that trust. For the time being. I am still hopeful that the the faction that supports the Leica legacy will prevail over the bean counters.

 

Long term customer satisfaction wins and short-term gain loses.

We have a saying over here that teaches that a good reputation comes on foot and leaves on horseback....

 

They aren't really a small company. Relative to Canon, Nikon, they are, yes, but their products are several times more expensive. They have stores all over the world and are rapidly expanding. They are making products, which are a mix of niche and marketed-as-niche, however, that does not make them exempt from resolving the issue. I agree that we can forgive issues that do arise, not for issues that aren't resolved. They may be a small company, but mine is smaller.

 

I'm sure this what you mean, though Leica are often prone to use this as pretext, and sometimes I feel that the staff are trained to react this way "this is a hand made, it's idiosyncratic, it's a high performance instrument in needing of extra attention" It's a sort of back handed slap that I feel is suppose to make you feel like you've got something unique and it's OK that it doesn't work properly. It isn't OK. Fix it.