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They are essentially proposing to replace a faulty component with another another component that appears to have the same design fault.

 

Indeed - the two reasons why it would be idiotic to pay for a replacement, and illegal to charge for one:

1. Original has design flaw.

2. Replacement has the same design flaw.

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According to information I received today by Leica CS, only a limited number of camers are affected, in a small percentage. The Internet magnifying glass appears to be in full swing.

 

If it is indeed a small number or percentage, all the more reason for them to be repairing on a goodwill basis!

 

They have caused their own problem by laying out a repair timescale of ascending cost for the customer. Many will do as you did yesterday, Jaap, inspect their in-warranty cameras, and send them in ASAP. Hence the flood.

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I went to the local Leica service centre here in Singapore last Friday to get my sensor cleaned as I had a number of spots I wasn't able to remove with my blower and the Pentax sticks... I have never done a wet cleaning of my sensor.

 

Result: the sensor needs to be replaced, the "dots" are corrosion, the friendly service guy said. As my M9 is from 2010, I have to pay 1000SGD/600€... :( According to him, humidity might be the reason here, I have been living in Dubai and Shanghai before, but bought a dry cabinet in the first week after arriving in Singapore 3 months ago. Might have been too late.

 

A crop of an image taken last week looks like this: the spots which (to my eye) looked like oil are in fact the evil ones, it seems.

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It's right on Schott's cut sheets for the glass. S8612 is the wunderkind ultra thin, ultra effective one - and as noted above is exactly what makes up the M9's absorption filter. See what its sheet says about coatings:

 

http://www.howardglass.com/pdf/s_8612_datasheet.pdf

 

All of these near IR glasses have humidity warnings, S8612's is the most severe. Also, you can see that all three are not humidity resistant in the counter distinction below.

 

NIR cutoff filters for image sensors and night vision systems | SCHOTT North America

 

The usual workarounds are coating and laminating to other glass. Call Bob Cairns. He'll tell you all about it.

 

Dante

 

Humidity killed my M9 sensor. I was caught out in a torrential downpour in the last remaining piece of tropical rain forest in Barbados (Welchman Hall Gully) for an hour, with my M9 wrapped up in a plastic trash bag to "keep it dry". Within a day, the dreaded white spots appeared. I have not used it in a high humidity environment since the sensor was replaced and now that I use the M240 as my main camera, the M9 is used as an indoor technical and copying camera only, so hopefully it might last better in this use.

 

As others have said, I am now waiting for the next disaster with the M240. Not a great track record on digital M's. First the M8 IR and filters problem, second the irreplaceable M8 LCD screen and graphics card, now the M9/M-E/MM sensor - what next?

 

Wilson

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All very confusing, as M9s seem to be buying and selling just as usual - even new ones in the form of the M-E. :confused:

 

Yes, but I'm not sure for how long. Irrespective of the facts, as soon as a Leica camera or lens gets a dodgy reputation, the product ends up being treated as if it's toxic.

 

I recently sold an M-E and M9P as part of a strategy of moving away from colour digital M bodies towards a combination of Nikon DSLR and Leica film bodies. I rather liked my M9P and have many photos I've taken with it that I value but for the last year or so it was always playing second fiddle to my Monochrom. One of the problems I have with colour digitals is that the results are very light dependent (far more so it seems than film). When the light is just right, the results really sing but much of the time I was finding myself quite dissatisfied with the colour and tonality which no amount of fiddling with in ACR and PS could ultimately put right. I was a little reluctant to sell my M9P but the siren call of a new film camera proved too much and I was happy to let it go. In truth, I don't miss it. A black M9-P is a handsome object but I don't miss the clunk-whirr of the shutter and the chunky ergonomics of the body.

Edited by wattsy
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Irrespective of the facts, as soon as a Leica camera or lens gets a dodgy reputation, the product ends up being treated as if it's toxic.

 

Well in this case my hesitation decided the issue for me: the camera is already sold. The price, condition and low actuation count was too good for it to sit long on the shelf. I wonder whether it'll be many years of pleasurable use, or a nightmare for the new owner.

 

I'd really only have given it minimal use anyway - after selling the M8 and going nearly 100% over to film I've not regretted leaving digital behind. It's just the rare occasions (kids unwrapping christmas gifts in candlelight, for example) where I sometimes miss the flexibility of digital high ISO.

Guess I'll stock up on Portra 800 instead, and learn how to push it a couple stops.

 

Thanks for responding - seems like the whole issue is wrapped in the usual Leica mystery.

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Well in this case my hesitation decided the issue for me: the camera is already sold. The price, condition and low actuation count was too good for it to sit long on the shelf. I wonder whether it'll be many years of pleasurable use, or a nightmare for the new owner.

 

I'd really only have given it minimal use anyway - after selling the M8 and going nearly 100% over to film I've not regretted leaving digital behind. It's just the rare occasions (kids unwrapping christmas gifts in candlelight, for example) where I sometimes miss the flexibility of digital high ISO.

Guess I'll stock up on Portra 800 instead, and learn how to push it a couple stops.

 

Thanks for responding - seems like the whole issue is wrapped in the usual Leica mystery.

 

Give the Ricoh GXR a thought for your limited digital needs. I picked one up recently, new, for $550 (body and leica module) from an Ebay seller in Thailand. My intent is to use it as you suggest, just as a fill-in when my film camera isn't appropriate. I'm REALLY impressed by the GXR, its ergonomics, its fit and finish, its use with my Leitz/voigtlander/ nikon lenses. It really is a fine camera, and cheap these days. And, as an added bonus, you don't need to worry about the sendor issues (heck, and even if you did, it's $550 thrown away, not $6000).

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According to him, humidity might be the reason here, I have been living in Dubai and Shanghai before, but bought a dry cabinet in the first week after arriving in Singapore 3 months ago. Might have been too late.

 

If humidity is the reason why this isn't a common issue with other sensors?

I found a very specialized blog about sensor technology Image Sensors World. There are no discussions about humidity.

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Because there are different cover glass types. For a full-frame rangefinder Leica one needs a very specialized one due to the attendant problems caused by the short register distance and legacy lenses that obviously have not taken digital sensors into account. Basically Leica had no choice but to use this one, that unfortunately turns out to have humidity problems.

Edited by jaapv
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Because there are different cover glass types. For a full-frame rangefinder Leica one needs a very specialized one due to the attendant problems caused by the short register distance and legacy lenses that obviously have not taken digital sensors into account. Basically Leica had no choice but to use this one, that unfortunately turns out to have humidity problems.

I agree with that.

But,

If the problem is realy the cover glass,

all The M9 having the same sensor, and the same cover glass,

How is it possible that the Leica CS say "only a limited number or small percentage of cameras are affected"

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