keithlaban.co.uk Posted December 8, 2014 Share #801 Posted December 8, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I had the same thought.It looks like the process has started. How old is that camera? The M9-P is just over two years old, has mainly been used as a back-up camera for my M240, has around 800 actuations and has never been wet cleaned. There are a dozen or so of these marks. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 Hi keithlaban.co.uk, Take a look here Strange white spots on M9 sensor?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
M9reno Posted December 8, 2014 Share #802 Posted December 8, 2014 How large percentage of M9 class cameras is affected by the corrosion issue, and what is the likelyhood that a hitherto unaffected camera will develop the corrosion issue? Has this been determined yet, or has Leica said anything about that yet? Depends what you mean by "affected". Any camera with the sensor type in question (M9, M9-P, M-E, MM) is vulnerable to corrosion at humidity levels above 70% RH. Depending on how much humidity it is exposed to, the camera will develop the problem sooner or later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted December 8, 2014 Share #803 Posted December 8, 2014 The M9-P is just over two years old, has mainly been used as a back-up camera for my M240, has around 800 actuations and has never been wet cleaned. There are a dozen or so of these marks. Thanks. Do you have by chance a similar image from an earlier date and small aperture? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 8, 2014 Share #804 Posted December 8, 2014 I am ever more doubtful about the "cleaning" explanation. How long is the sensor actually moist? Seconds or less. For a corrosion process to take effect I would imagine that a more long-term influence would be needed. i.e. continuing humidity. Maybe salt air in the neighbourhood of the sea, some thing like that. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted December 8, 2014 Share #805 Posted December 8, 2014 Thanks. Do you have by chance a similar image from an earlier date and small aperture? I've compared earlier similar shots and yes, there were similar but fewer marks a year or so earlier. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted December 8, 2014 Share #806 Posted December 8, 2014 I am ever more doubtful about the "cleaning" explanation. How long is the sensor actually moist? Seconds or less. For a corrosion process to take effect I would imagine that a more long-term influence would be needed. i.e. continuing humidity. Maybe salt air in the neighbourhood of the sea, some thing like that. I also very much doubt it, especially because there have been so many cases mentioned in this thread of sensors showing this problem, which have never been cleaned. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted December 8, 2014 Share #807 Posted December 8, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've compared earlier similar shots and yes, there were similar but fewer marks a year or so earlier. What I have done is use the earlier shots, where the problem is seen to first appear (on a particular spot in the sensor), to make the case that my camera, now out of warranty, was suffering the problem within warranty (the date of the earlier shots). Send Leica a CD with the relevant RAW files as proof. I thought this might be helpful to you, too. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted December 8, 2014 Share #808 Posted December 8, 2014 I've compared earlier similar shots and yes, there were similar but fewer marks a year or so earlier. Thanks. I think it would be very instructive if you loaded both images into Photoshop cropped the same area and document and post a comparison. TIA. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 8, 2014 Share #809 Posted December 8, 2014 I also very much doubt it, especially because there have been so many cases mentioned in this thread of sensors showing this problem, which have never been cleaned. Maybe it is even the other way around, that a certain type of sensor contamination (Pollen? oil? maybe even miniscule drops of sweat fro the hands when changing lenses, etc.) will initiate corrosion when not cleaned off. It is very suggestive that it starts off as "dust". Who knows... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted December 8, 2014 Share #810 Posted December 8, 2014 Thanks. I think it would be very instructive if you loaded both images into Photoshop cropped the same area and document and post a comparison. TIA. Ok, here's the shocker, I've now gone back into photoshop and had a good look at several blower brush sensor cleaning test shots I made in August 2013 which clearly show many of these weird circular rings with central dark spots and compared them with shots made a week or so ago and the more recent shots show far fewer of these marks although they do appear larger. What the hell? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted December 8, 2014 Share #811 Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Maybe it is even the other way around, that a certain type of sensor contamination (Pollen? oil? maybe even miniscule drops of sweat fro the hands when changing lenses, etc.) will initiate corrosion when not cleaned off. It is very suggestive that it starts off as "dust". Who knows... My theory since the beginning was that it's oil from the shutter. That's how the spots look like first then if not cleaned promptly they become unremovable and develop the characteristic bubbly look. My M240 sensor got a lot of oil spots in the first weeks of use. They looked exactly like the M9 spots but I easily removed them with wet cleaning and now they've stopped completely. Edited December 8, 2014 by edwardkaraa 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted December 8, 2014 Share #812 Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Ok, here's the shocker, I've now gone back into photoshop and had a good look at several blower brush sensor cleaning test shots I made in August 2013 which clearly show many of these weird circular rings with central dark spots and compared them with shots made a week or so ago and the more recent shots show far fewer of these marks although they do appear larger. What the hell? It depends on the lens used and the aperture. Also the spots are air bubbles under the coatings. Sometimes they move or consolidate into a larger bubble. Edited December 8, 2014 by edwardkaraa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted December 8, 2014 Share #813 Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Ok, here's the shocker, I've now gone back into photoshop and had a good look at several blower brush sensor cleaning test shots I made in August 2013 which clearly show many of these weird circular rings with central dark spots and compared them with shots made a week or so ago and the more recent shots show far fewer of these marks although they do appear larger. What the hell? Many thanks. I would love to see the image comparison. Please, let's follow this train of thought wherever it leads! Could you also give us the relevant lens parameters. edwardkaraa makes a pertinent point. Thanks again. Edited December 8, 2014 by k-hawinkler 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted December 8, 2014 Share #814 Posted December 8, 2014 It depends on the lens used and the aperture. Same lens, same aperture, more on the older shots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted December 8, 2014 Share #815 Posted December 8, 2014 Many thanks. I would love to see the image comparison.Please, let's follow this train of thought wherever it leads! Could you also give us the relevant lens parameters. edwardkaraa makes a pertinent point. Thanks again. I'm going to redo the test tomorrow and will post a comparison of the resulting shot with that of one from July 2013. I'm beginning to think that as Edward has said these circular ring type marks may be air bubbles. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted December 8, 2014 Share #816 Posted December 8, 2014 Same lens, same aperture, more on the older shots. Well, they can hardly be oil, if you have never wet-cleaned the sensor... Can you show an example of the same spot, before and after? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithlaban.co.uk Posted December 8, 2014 Share #817 Posted December 8, 2014 Well, they can hardly be oil, if you have never wet-cleaned the sensor... Can you show an example of the same spot, before and after? No, none of them look like oil spots. These ringed circular marks with dark central spots and pale halo are unlike anything I've encountered before. I'll hopefully post the older shots vs newer shots comparison tomorrow. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted December 8, 2014 Share #818 Posted December 8, 2014 Repairs Not that Leoca can or are willing to even consider this, but however, I just had an experience with Canon. I dropped my beloved 70-200 on the pit lane cement floor at Daytona a few weeks back. So a pro nearby told me where to contact Canon-CPS. They have various levels of service available for pros or serious amateurs. The levels are based on a point system which corresponds to various bodies, lenses and accessories you already own. If you do not make the first level of cutoff you do not get a service discount nor priority turn around. The Gold level cost me $100 which is the annual fee for that level of service which includes a 10% discount on all work performed. They promise the repaired item within 3 business days once you email confirm their repair cost which they email to you and provide a credit card which they charge at the conclusion of the service. My lens needed an AF motor and lens hood. They emailed me the cost within one business day of receipt of the lens. I was astonished after having Leica send me a letter maybe at best one month after receiving a lens for CLA even though I put on my repair sheet to email me all correspondence. The lens came back like new round trip in less than one week! I must say I am now spoiled. I had a large Leica dealer send in my 180/2.0 R lens to NJ and it took them 7 months just to blow some dust out of it. Leica should contemplate joining the real world of camera repairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 8, 2014 Share #819 Posted December 8, 2014 However the downside is that you have to use Canon.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satijntje Posted December 8, 2014 Share #820 Posted December 8, 2014 Better a working Canon then a Broken Leica. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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