The Sony A7 thread [Merged]

[naturephoto1]

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Over at Fredmiranda.com we are also discussing the issues of the new Sony A7 and A7r cameras. Part of the discussion in the following thread regards the WA M and other RF lenses:

 

A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses - FM Forums

 

From here down we were discussing the WA M and RF lenses on the cameras. It was mentioned that Sony has or is in the works that there will be programmable lens corrections available. This is on the Sony website.

 

A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses - FM Forums

 

Below is the link to what is coming soon from Sony for the lens corrections in the same thread:

 

A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses - FM Forums

 

This may help us deal with issues when using at least some of the WA M lenses on these cameras.

 

Rich

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[k-hawinkler]

The ebay ad looks like a classic gumtree type. I wonder if these deals ever happen because I've never been able to risk it and find out.

 

I've ordered the A7r. It's the money I would have spent upgrading to the M from the M9p if Leica had got themselves sorted out and delivered them in higher volume. If it works out with Leica glass I'll see if the rangefinder means enough to me to keep the M9.

 

I'm not a lifelong rangefinder user but I think Leica are trading on their engineering superiority and the digital element is likely to let all of our digital M bodies down in the medium term which has always taken something away from the experience for me.

 

I'm hoping the A7r will cover all the improvements between M9 and M, increased DR, higher noise free iso, movie mode, live view. I hope there are no nasty surprises for all of us early adopters.

 

Oh, there might be!

That's the price to pay to be at the cutting "bleeding" edge of technology.

[dwbell]

In camera, custom, lens specific profiles for Peripheral Shading, CA and Distortion!?

Epic win Sony.

 

Who needs a really good software and electronics team in this day and age? Not Sony.

 

Massive functional add Firmware upgrade on a DISCONTINUED camera, X100.

Epic win Fuji.

 

Who needs to keep on top of customer satisfaction to the point of being obsessive not to let anyone down? Not Fuji.

 

Just some observations on how other camera manufacturers are behaving towards their customers - whom - after all, pay all of their wages.....

[Rick]

Basically, what I meant, is reflected well in Ozkar's main arguments in the last posts. I see that you enjoy shooting with M240, so be it, there's no problem with that. In that case certainly a Sony A7r won't make much sense, unless you also want a backup camera.

 

Thank you for validating that the enjoyment I receive by using my M240 is not a problem. I feel better already. But, the reason I shoot the M240 with M-lenses is because, it is the fastest and most accurate way to shoot these fantastic little lenses, not to mention the lenses are best corrected by Leica for the M bodies. My enjoyment (your word) comes more at being able to use the M-lenses, the body is important more because, right now, it is the best way to use the lenses. I hope this helps explain why I use the M240. Has very little to do with Rolex watches or Ferraris.

 

The thing is that there are people out there, who can't afford a Leica M240. But still enamored by M lenses and already have some. For them the new Sony cameras can be a compelling choice.

 

No doubt.

 

And I have to agree with others that in many sense they may prove superior in technical performance (and slightly even better in terms of image quality, but at least comparable) to a Leica M240.

 

It should be superior. It is newer technology. But, we will have to wait and see if it produces superior results with all of the M-lenses, let alone if it will deliver a superior functional experience.

 

We can definitely expect this in terms of electronics/firmware - think of EVF performance, for example, where Leica is quite substantially lagging behind.

 

Again, I agree, it should be better, it is a generation newer release. But, the RX1 which came out about the same time as the M240, had superior electronics yet was only able to match, at best, the image from the M240, and only at one focal length. And, it certainly was substantially lagging behind the M240 in a lot of areas, such as manual focus.

 

Again, if rangefinder mechanism is what you die for, then it's no way a substitute and I perfectly understand that. And also if the high price tag of Leica cameras is not of concern, I agree that the best thing is to stick to those as they form a complete, coherent system. However, in all other cases Sony will be tempting.

 

It isn't so much that I believe the rangefinder is to die for, the RF is simply designed to be the fastest and most accurate way to use these great M-lenses. I think you might miss the point of the RF completely. Those that like it have stuck with it because nothing yet has come out that is "overall" better for our M-lenses. It isn't a religion for us or a badge for us. And, I did read where you said that it may be best to stick with a coherent system and I agree with that.

 

The A7 may well get closer as a camera that provides a functionally better way to shoot the M-lenses and it might even work well with most of the M focal lengths, but it will never be primarily designed for M-lenses. The M240, on the other hand, was designed primarily to be used with M-lenses. As a matter of fact, the lenses were designed to be used with the camera. It is going to be difficult for another manufacturer to make a camera that works better with lenses that are designed to be used with a RF. Im sure it is coming fast, but for now I just think the Leica M is relevant, that's all. So, I'm going to "enjoy" it while I can.

 

Rick

 

 

 

(Now, if you got a few M-lenses or want to buy a few, it will be very cool to have a camera like this to shoot them on. The final image will most likely rival the M240 at a lot of focal lengths. I think my A7R is going to primarily be my Tele R lens camera. But, who knows, maybe I'll get into using my little 35 Summicron on it. If, I ever get my 50 APO back, imagine what the image... don't get me started.)

[dwbell]

From Sony;

 

"The Peaking function can also be activated to colorize the most sharply focused areas of your image for quick confirmation (level of sensitivity and highlight color are adjustable)."

 

They're just reading my annoyance list of the M240 and throwing straight back in my face, aren't they? The more I read, the more impressed I am.

 

Did I mention the in camera custom lens profile adjustment? Oh yeah, I did...

[IkarusJohn]

Are you really comparing APS-C to small sensor cameras folks?

 

Actually, that's quite right. This has nothing to do with the X2, X-Vario, NEX or any other APS-C camera. The only fair comparison with the A7 is other full framed cameras - the M(240), RX-1 and full blown dSLRs.

 

Of them, really, only the M(240) is comparable.

 

The M(240) has an excellent optical viewfinder, and the Leica quality attaching to it. I love my M9, despite its indifferent scoring in objective tests. There's something about the images it produces that reminds me of the old days of Kodachrome. When I bought mine, my wife was appalled - she said it was a gimmick, then she saw the images.

 

Similarly, Rick, Jono, and so many others I respect love their M(240)s, and the images they get. I'm not so convinced, but I don't need to be. Leica understands image quality and optics.

 

Sony understands electronics probably better than anyone. The klieg for me will not be the image delivered from some plasticky kit lens designed by Zeiss and built by some one else, but when I slap my Noctilux on the front (or one of the other truly extraordinary lenses I've taken so much care to collect over the last few years) if the images don't measure up, this camera will go straight onto eBay.

 

I can adjust to battery life, chargers, EVF, DxO reviews, buffer speeds and all the other crap people get excited about, but if the images don't stack up, it'll get the flick.

 

So far, what I read s encouraging.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[tgm]

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For a year I have been dithering over whether to get an M or not, I have an M9. This week, in fact today, was going to put me money down, and join the queue, but last night saw the Sony A7r release. Smaller, cheaper, full frame , with a shed load of mega 'pixies' to round up photons, focus peaking, can take M lenses..

 

What about the shutter noise? I read that the Sony A7 is very loud. Then, is the shutter of the M as silent as that of the M9 in the discrete mode? How does it compare to other cameras, e.g. Olympus Pen or OMD?

 

Thomas

 

p.s. what about Bulb mode, the A7 has no wire release...

[janki]

Hey, off topic, sort of, but wait 'till I post a picture if the A7R and my 280/2.8 APO stacked with a couple APO extenders. Or, imagine the modular Tele R system with the little A7R on it (I don't own that, maybe Lou is hiding that one in his collection?). Who'd have thunk this would be the look of future photography?

 

I wonder if Sony has put an R after A7 to indicate that this camera actually is excellent for R lenses.

[k-hawinkler]

:D

[zlatkob]

Rangefinder or EVF? It's that simple.

 

And price too! And shutter noise and ergonomics / ease of use. These other factors can be decisive for someone. Each camera will have its appeal.

[wattsy]

I think the Sony with the new Summicron Asph may potentially give similar results to the Leica S2 and at a fraction of the cost.

 

It's a very interesting thought. The 36MP Sony/50 APO combination will not have the medium format 'look' (but, then again, the S sensor at 33mm x 45mm is not really medium format). Nor will the Sony EVF bear much comparison with the rather lovely view through the S finder but, with the Sony/50 APO combo about a third of the cost of the S kit, it's a disadvantage many could live with.

[iforum]

Few here have the creative photographic skills to warrant high end cameras .............. but it does make for happy snappers

[jonoslack]

I think that over the last few years of digital we've all become really really focused on the next great step forwards in Image Quality.

 

This has become less and less relevant, so that now I firmly believe that one should choose a camera for what it delivers to you in terms of usability . . . . will it allow you to make the most of whatever talent you have for taking photos?

 

For me, the rangefinder of the M is the real deal. I've got an A7r on order, but I suspect it'll just be another in a parade of excellent digital cameras which I don't use that much.

 

I spent a lovely day today in a very old tannery in Devon, and two M bodies, one with a 35 'lux and the other with a Noctilux - it just worked. It was honestly a joy to shoot with them. I really don't think it would have been better with focus peaking and an EVF . . . in fact, I think it would have been worse.

 

It's wonderful that Sony (and Olympus and others) are producing great digital cameras, but for me there really isn't anything quite like an M with a good lens.

[BerndReini]

Just stick with the M9 and be done with it. I asked myself honestly how often I miss great photographs because I am limited by the M9. The answer is not very often.

[Guest malland]

Here is a small portion of a 100% crop from a hand held 60MP P65+ that is straight out of camera. You will most likely need to click the picture to view it full size.

 

100% crop

Bad example: this parrot has banding on the lower beak; you should have used a bird that doesn't have beak-banding.

 

—Mitch/Paris

Tristes Tropiques [WIP]

[jonoslack]

What about the shutter noise? I read that the Sony A7 is very loud. Then, is the shutter of the M as silent as that of the M9 in the discrete mode? How does it compare to other cameras, e.g. Olympus Pen or OMD?

 

Thomas

 

Hi Thomas

can't comment about the A7, but the M is much quieter than the M9 - even in discreet mode. . . . A simple test with a long dinner table and two bored wives, suggested that the M is actually quieter than the M6 for the subject.

 

It's also a lovely soft sound.

[IkarusJohn]

Few here have the creative photographic skills to warrant high end cameras .............. but it does make for happy snappers

 

Crikey!

 

That really adds to the discussion in a positive way.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Ecaton]

For a tiny 1" sensor though.

 

Lets be real: For the money a X Vario with external EVF costs one can buy the RX10 plus the FF A7 with 28-70mm kit zoom (yes, no kidding). So yes the RX10 has a smaller sensor than the XV, but there is no comparison between the outstanding FF 24MP sensor of the A7 and the "me too" 16MP Sony sensor in the XV. Any questions left?

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[Guest borge]

I'm getting dizzy from all the technical talk here.

 

Did everyone forget about the user experience of using an M rangefinder body with manual focusing M lenses? That's by far the biggest reason for me to choose Leica in the first place, not the technical details.

 

Good luck getting comfortable with the simplicity and non-quirky operation of the Sony camera (irony / sarcasm).

[Ozkar]

What about the shutter noise? I read that the Sony A7 is very loud. Then, is the shutter of the M as silent as that of the M9 in the discrete mode? How does it compare to other cameras, e.g. Olympus Pen or OMD?

 

Thomas

 

p.s. what about Bulb mode, the A7 has no wire release...

 

The Sony A7 has an electronic shutter option which will make it whisper quiet. The M is much quieter than the M9 (which sounds about the same as my Bosch electric stapler being fired) but my Canon 6D (in silent mode) is smoother and quieter than both the M9 and M240.