k-hawinkler Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1341 Posted October 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yup, so did apple. So do all the amazon purchases that take while to actually arrive. What am I missing? edit, I'm not US by the way. Maybe things are different there? That depends. B&H charge immediately for PayPal, for Credit Card when shipped. Sony, Olympus when shipped, also for PayPal. My Sony order is listed as pending in PayPal, no money transferred yet. Weird thing with Olympus. They charged for E-M1 when shipped through PayPal. Battery grip was out of stock, so not shipped nor charged. When I asked about the grip 4 weeks later Olympus said they are no longer authorized. So upon my request they send me a new PayPal authorization request for the grip. Amazon when shipped IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 Hi k-hawinkler, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1342 Posted October 21, 2013 That depends. B&H charge immediately for PayPal, for Credit Card when shipped. Never shopped at B&H. All online purchases in my history charge on receipt of order. But then my credit card here gets FULLY deducted from my current account every month. Some countries find that incredible (they only deduct the interest to date), but I much prefer this way. Old Europe. Ya know? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1343 Posted October 21, 2013 Sorry to deflect the discussion. In my experience, Amazon deduct only when they can deliver. Pre-orders and out of stock are not charged until in stock. The unsecured comment relates to the issue of insolvency. Unless you have protective legislation, if you pay a deposit for goods not delivered, your money goes into the insolvency. You can't insist on a complete refund. Effectively, the vendors can use that money however they like, and you cannot require the liquidator to give you a camera, if it arrives. The camera supplier probably won't have been paid, and they will almost certainly have the right to take the stock back. You will get your money back only from any money left after secured creditors (usually banks) have been paid, suppliers have recovered secured stock, and remaining stock and assets flogged off cheap. Unsecured creditors tend to get nothing much. Where items are stock, or in demand, I would never pay a deposit. There's no reason to. I have and never would pay a deposit for camera gear (actually, that's not quite true - I did once, and was pleased I did when Leica tried to cancel the order in breach of contract). Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1344 Posted October 21, 2013 Sorry to deflect the discussion. In my experience, Amazon deduct only when they can deliver. Pre-orders and out of stock are not charged until in stock. The unsecured comment relates to the issue of insolvency. Unless you have protective legislation, if you pay a deposit for goods not delivered, your money goes into the insolvency. You can't insist on a complete refund. Effectively, the vendors can use that money however they like, and you cannot require the liquidator to give you a camera, if it arrives. The camera supplier probably won't have been paid, and they will almost certainly have the right to take the stock back. You will get your money back only from any money left after secured creditors (usually banks) have been paid, suppliers have recovered secured stock, and remaining stock and assets flogged off cheap. Unsecured creditors tend to get nothing much. Where items are stock, or in demand, I would never pay a deposit. There's no reason to. I have and never would pay a deposit for camera gear (actually, that's not quite true - I did once, and was pleased I did when Leica tried to cancel the order in breach of contract). Cheers John Understand all that. Not too concerned about Sony or apple going insolvent in the next 3 weeks though. Also, am insured against such things privately. As above, all internet purchases here where I live are payment on receipt of order. I understand it's different in other countries. These are not deposits, they're payments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1345 Posted October 21, 2013 Is that the case with M>F adapter. 1. A7R’s sensor has off set micro-lenses designed to better capture light hitting edges/corners — A7 sensor does not. 2. A7R micro-lenses have gapless design. A7′s sensor doesn’t You could get M>F adapter (maybe on eBay) or improvise but as I said it would only work in extreme close up and only with longer M lenses like 90 & 135mm. I know this as a fact as I tried it with 90mm AA attached to D700 via Leitaxed #14167 adapter, I could focus onto objects about 10cm away (probably pasted example on LUF in the past). Regarding your other point I have seen & read Sonyalpharumors webpage, it states A7R might work with M lenses. Might reads wishful thinking until validated by real test. Please don't take me wrong, I think A7R can work well with SLR lenses of any FL and longer M lenses but short M lenses is big question mark until somebody produce firm evidence that it works, so far Sony is not giving much away only speculative rumours stoking fires of desire. Even Leica M(240) is struggling with wide M lenses and it also have sensor with offset microlens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onceuponatime Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1346 Posted October 21, 2013 You could get M>F adapter (maybe on eBay) or improvise but as I said it would only work in extreme close up and only with longer M lenses like 90 & 135mm. I know this as a fact as I tried it with 90mm AA attached to D700 via Leitaxed #14167 adapter, I could focus onto objects about 10cm away (probably pasted example on LUF in the past). Regarding your other point I have seen & read Sonyalpharumors webpage, it states A7R might work with M lenses. Might reads wishful thinking until validated by real test. Ah. I wonder if there are Nikon S mount to F mount adapters and how they fare. To be frank I am curious about wide angle on A7r, whether I purchase it is another matter eniterly. I recently visited an antique shop which had approximately thirty fully working Large Format cameras and I was rather taken by them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1347 Posted October 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Understand all that. Not too concerned about Sony or apple going insolvent in the next 3 weeks though. Also, am insured against such things privately. As above, all internet purchases here where I live are payment on receipt of order. I understand it's different in other countries. These are not deposits, they're payments. Your deposit (paid to a vendor) is not held by either Apple or Sony. Obviously different if you're contracting directly with Sony or Apple (even then, you'll find it is not actually the main company, but a local representative). Note your experience with internet sales. I guess my point is that it appears that some people too readily cough up a deposit thinking it will get them further up the queue - to my mind, it shouldn't (if your dealer is reputable and you have a relationship with them). A US dealer I have a very good relationship once sent me a hard to get Summilux and told me to post him a cheque, Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1348 Posted October 21, 2013 Yep, understand where you're coming from. This isn't a queue though, it's just buying it and suffering a tiny 3 week delivery time. In the apple case I could pay more to have it delivered quicker. I have purchase receipts etc, the guy at the counter is just really slow handing it over - if you see what I mean? ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1349 Posted October 21, 2013 Yes, I do. I'm top of the list with my dealer - the only issue for him will be getting stock from Sony NZ, which in turn gets it from Sony Aus, which in turn ... I guess I'll be getting mine sometime in February (by which time, some gleeful poster will upload some mushy images taken with my favourite Leica wides, and I will cancel my order - no harm done). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1350 Posted October 21, 2013 Ah. I wonder if there are Nikon S mount to F mount adapters and how they fare. If you mean old Nikon RF equipment it just doesn't work on F system. You need to understand flange distance and how it relate to compatibility between various systems Flange focal distance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1351 Posted October 21, 2013 Yes, I do. I'm top of the list with my dealer - the only issue for him will be getting stock from Sony NZ, which in turn gets it from Sony Aus, which in turn ... I guess I'll be getting mine sometime in February (by which time, some gleeful poster will upload some mushy images taken with my favourite Leica wides, and I will cancel my order - no harm done). Be glad to help you and others with comparisons. Warts 'n all. But only 35 cron, 50 lux and 75 cron I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1352 Posted October 21, 2013 Be glad to help you and others with comparisons. Warts 'n all. But only 35 cron, 50 lux and 75 cron I'm afraid. With 35-75mm FL range it would be fair to assume good performance on A7/7R is given. Apart from low price for camera back can't see any advantage over any digital full frame M9/MM/M(240). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1353 Posted October 21, 2013 With 35-75mm FL range it would be fair to assume good performance on A7/7R is given. Apart from low price for camera back can't see any advantage over any digital full frame M9/MM/M(240). Agreed you can't see advantages... ....until you see the images. Body handling and capability is something else you can't see on the internet, on,y feel while you're shooting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1354 Posted October 21, 2013 Agreed you can't see advantages... ....until you see the images. Did anyone saw any images produced with either A7 or A7R yet that are sufficiently jaw dropping to convince me that my current M9 is piece or garbage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1355 Posted October 21, 2013 Did anyone saw any images produced with either A7 or A7R yet that are sufficiently jaw dropping to convince me that my current M9 is piece or garbage. Your bias is a touch obvious. I'll shoot with both and decide for myself based on the prints I make. I'm not here to convince you of anything, I couldn't care less what you shoot with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1356 Posted October 21, 2013 Be glad to help you and others with comparisons. Warts 'n all. But only 35 cron, 50 lux and 75 cron I'm afraid. I don't think you'll have any problems with those lenses on the A7r (from what I've read, of course). The issue for me will be 15/2.8 ZM, 21 Summillux and 28 Summircon To be honest, while I'm holding my judgment and waiting to see actual images taken with this camera (nowhere to be seen yet), I am not entirely optimistic. For general use (this weekend away in Wellington), my bag will contain M9 & Monnochrom, 21 Summilux, 50 Noctilux & 75 Summilux - might as well use them! If I had an A7r, the M9 would probably stay at home, and I would think about adding the 28 Summicron. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jones Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1357 Posted October 21, 2013 No-one is going to make a good case against the M9, the A7r is roughly the price difference between an M9 and M240. You can keep the M9 and use the Sony for low light, movies, macro etc etc. That's the view I'm taking...at the moment. Why does it always have to be, this new cameras great, everything else is garbage? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1358 Posted October 21, 2013 Your bias is a touch obvious. I'll shoot with both and decide for myself based on the prints I make. I'm not here to convince you of anything, I couldn't care less what you shoot with. I hope your & others blind fate is rewarded with satisfactory performing camera. On the day of announcement I was impulsively jumping with joy that we finally got universal digital back working with all M/R/other lenses, without strap lugs falling off. Several days later I am not convinced until i see the goods. There still could be some truth in an old adage "you get what you pay for". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1359 Posted October 21, 2013 I hope your & others blind fate is rewarded with satisfactory performing camera. Whatever man. It isn't 'blind' if I'm going to be seeing my test results. It isn't 'faith' if I know from these tests which camera I prefer. If it's a crock of cheap sh1t, I'll dump it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1360 Posted October 21, 2013 After reading the article about how lens adapters introduce image problems, I intend to obtain one of the cheap adapters to see how well it is made. I work with the US Navy's measurement science department where we can accurately measure to 1 millionths of an inch in a temperature and humidity controlled environment. That's funny to me because some cheap Nikon to Canon adapters that I bought were so far off that I could see through the viewfinder that I had to be set to about 10' to get infinity. I certainly didn't need to measure to 1 millionth of an inch. I shimmed them myself without doing any measuring and had no problem making infinity line up and being squared up enough for my uses. If the adapter is tilted in some way you will see the focus fall off differently on one side than the other. E.g. on one side the focus will be closer and on the other side it will be farther away. That should be pretty easy to spot with magnified live view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.