mmx_2 Posted October 7, 2013 Share #1 Posted October 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everybody! Just thought I'd give my opinion about the new M. Background: This summer I was going to be on four months paternity leave (yes we have a good system in Sweden) and I planned already in February to get a new camera to document my lovely daughter. Up till this point I'd been using my M8 and was quite happy with it. So, I called my dealer and ordered the new M and was told it shouldn't be a problem getting one before my paternity leave started on the June the 1st. Well, this was in February and before the lug problems started... Anyway, the months past by and no sign of the new M so I decided to shot with my M8 instead and started a blog so friends and family could see what me and my daughter were up to. At the end of June my dealer called me and it had arrived! So will start from there now. My first impression of the camera were: *Colors very different from M8 and maybe a bit "over saturated" *Funky autoWB *Much improved viewfinder *A bit "plastic" but very silent shutter *Improved bright lines in the viewfinder *Improved camera grip with the built in "thumbs up" *Improvement screen So now, three months later and 2100 shots later (out of some 1500 are on my daughter...) I can say this: *I really, really like the colors, yes the are different, but they are very pleasing for the eye and I don's have change that much in Lightroom (anyway a lot less than with the M8) *The viewfinder is amazingly good all in all *I've used focus peaking and LiveView quite a bit for my 24mm and it works great *The screen is very good *Using longer R-lenses with the EVF works well, for the R-wides I sometimes have a hard time nailing the focus as accurate as my M-wides *The more I use the camera the more I like it So all in all I really like the camera and the files it produces are very nice. The only drawbacks are: *Funky AWB: If I take a couple of pictures in the same light with the same subject I get three different AWB values, even if the pictures are taken only seconds a part. None of the AWB-results are really right either, they are all close but not 100% right. *The camera has a tendency of overexposuring the red channel I strongly believe that the last two points can be vastly improved with a new firmware and that the camera will be just as good as the M8/M9s have been. Finally a couple of pictures: Summicron 50mm f2 Elmarit 28mm f4 Summicron 35mm f5,6 Cheers, Joakim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Hi mmx_2, Take a look here Three months with the M (Type 240) and 2100 pictures later. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mmx_2 Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share #2 Posted October 7, 2013 And two more pictures: Summicron 35mm f5,6 APO-Macro Elmarit 100mm f4,0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted October 7, 2013 Share #3 Posted October 7, 2013 Nice white clematis photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millberg Posted October 7, 2013 Share #4 Posted October 7, 2013 I'm happy for you. I am impressed of your pictures on your daughter. Sharp shots inside is not something that comes out-of-the-box. Well done Lars Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper UK Posted October 7, 2013 Share #5 Posted October 7, 2013 Thanks for your notes. I do completely agree about the red channel being a little quirky. Particularly noticed it when recently shooting a wide daylight scene that included a couple of guys in very red t-shirts. Had to red the luminosity and saturation of the red channel in order for the image to look balanced. Unfortunately can't upload example because of client embargo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted October 7, 2013 Share #6 Posted October 7, 2013 Great images...the sharpness is amazing. Can you share your LR settings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl G Posted October 8, 2013 Share #7 Posted October 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Lovely results and congratulations on two counts. Although a camera doesn't compare to a lovely young daughter, of course. The colors/AWB will be very well sorted and FW update is rumored to be coming very soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted October 8, 2013 Share #8 Posted October 8, 2013 God bless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted October 8, 2013 Thanks for your notes. I do completely agree about the red channel being a little quirky. Particularly noticed it when recently shooting a wide daylight scene that included a couple of guys in very red t-shirts. Had to red the luminosity and saturation of the red channel in order for the image to look balanced. Unfortunately can't upload example because of client embargo. Something like this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share #10 Posted October 8, 2013 Great images...the sharpness is amazing. Can you share your LR settings? Thanks, I've done them all manually, something like this: The one with the box: +11 contrast -11 high lights +7 shadows -9 white -18 black Noise reduction 35 The one with the hand out of focus: +20 contrast -1 high lights +9 shadows +11 white -15 black Noise reduction 22 The one from behind: -1 contrast -51 high lights -11 shadows +1 white -26 black Noise reduction 35 The flower: -46 high lights +36 shadows +18 white Noise reduction 61 The forest: -13 contrast -18 high lights +11 shadows +7 white The rest is unchanged. Didn't fiddle to much with colors, removed some red on the one with the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirekE Posted October 8, 2013 Share #11 Posted October 8, 2013 Something like this? Joakim, is the red channel blown in raw or is it just a color that is out of gamut of sRGB? This is how a histogram of more or less neutral wall looks like. The red is exposed less than the other two channels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share #12 Posted October 9, 2013 Joakim, is the red channel blown in raw or is it just a color that is out of gamut of sRGB? This is how a histogram of more or less neutral wall looks like. The red is exposed less than the other two channels. Actually yes, this was maybe not the best example since its a bit overexposed but that was what I found without to much searching. I've done some experiments and the phenomena occurs in strong sunlight and on synthetic fabrics and some plastic materials. My gut feelings says that the red channel is a bit over sensitive but from some rumors on the the firmware this should be solved. The problem for me is that we're getting less and less sunlight here so I guess I won't be able to do more tests until next summer (and hopefully the new firmware is out by then:) ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 9, 2013 Share #13 Posted October 9, 2013 Very confident Leica will fix this and other colour concerns in the Firmware update. On a separate note, I'm a lux user but that 50 cron is popping up more and more on my radar - it really renders nicely, quietly I think I would describe it, but beautiful none the less! Uh oh .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share #14 Posted October 9, 2013 Very confident Leica will fix this and other colour concerns in the Firmware update. On a separate note, I'm a lux user but that 50 cron is popping up more and more on my radar - it really renders nicely, quietly I think I would describe it, but beautiful none the less! Uh oh .... Yes, i was blown away by it! It's really a bargain, I bought mine used (a mint copy) for something like 700eur and I've never regretted it! For baby portraits it's perfect! Maybe for adults it's a bit to sharp, but it's very well balanced on colors and contrast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted October 9, 2013 Lovely results and congratulations on two counts. Although a camera doesn't compare to a lovely young daughter, of course. The colors/AWB will be very well sorted and FW update is rumored to be coming very soon. Thanks! I must admit, getting a baby has made me a far better photographer than before, you have to be very fast two catch the moment, but it's been great fun also! And I realized that shooting babies is not easy at all!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted October 9, 2013 Share #16 Posted October 9, 2013 Very confident Leica will fix this and other colour concerns in the Firmware update. I wouldn't count on it ...... it is neither a colour balance nor firmware issue but mainly a sensor characteristic due to having seperate colour channels....... and if one is overexposed... either generally, or by metering on a pure tone then you will get this .... red is by far the worst and results in a lurid magenta cast. It can be reduced by dialling down exp. in LR .... but the best option is avoidance ..... you need to meter about -1ev (or more) for anything with very large chunks of red in it .... here is a typical example ..... the second is underexposed (or rather nearly correctly exposed for the red) and this is in fact the right colour (begonias tend to be pretty fluourescent). There has been a lot of discussion about reds on the M and most of the problems as far as I can see are artefactual ones generated by overexposure. If you want to criticise anything it's the Leica metering system which gets fooled by pure reds (and yellows - try photographing daffodils ....) ..... It's something you will have to live with ...... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214236-three-months-with-the-m-type-240-and-2100-pictures-later/?do=findComment&comment=2438361'>More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share #17 Posted October 9, 2013 I wouldn't count on it ...... it is neither a colour balance nor firmware issue but mainly a sensor characteristic due to having seperate colour channels....... and if one is overexposed... either generally, or by metering on a pure tone then you will get this .... red is by far the worst and results in a lurid magenta cast. It can be reduced by dialling down exp. in LR .... but the best option is avoidance ..... you need to meter about -1ev (or more) for anything with very large chunks of red in it .... here is a typical example ..... the second is underexposed (or rather nearly correctly exposed for the red) and this is in fact the right colour (begonias tend to be pretty fluourescent). There has been a lot of discussion about reds on the M and most of the problems as far as I can see are artefactual ones generated by overexposure. If you want to criticise anything it's the Leica metering system which gets fooled by pure reds (and yellows - try photographing daffodils ....) ..... It's something you will have to live with ...... Thanks! Great example, i have some similar examples with red plastic. I'm a man of hope so I still hope a new firmware will make it at least a bit better:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted October 9, 2013 Share #18 Posted October 9, 2013 as I said ...... it's more an exposure than a colour issue..... and only when large areas of red confuse the metering .... or you over-expose generally. I 'suspect' that the firmware will make little difference to this particular issue ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 9, 2013 Share #19 Posted October 9, 2013 Are those two shots in camera reflective metered? Because the first looks too hot period to me, the grey patches on the passport are too hot. (Edit: red patch on passport on the 2nd shot is also way off to my eye) This could get into a minefield of tech jargon and so on, but when I incident meter and use my custom profile I'm very pleased with the colour, even pre-firmware update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted October 9, 2013 Share #20 Posted October 9, 2013 This could get into a minefield of tech jargon and so on, but when I incident meter and use my custom profile I'm very pleased with the colour, even pre-firmware update. errr...... correct...... with correct WB, exposure and a custom profile the colours (including reds) are fine on the M...... and I am assured will be more consistent when the firmware is upgraded and WB is fixed.... this is an issue of blown colour channels....... just using the normal classic metering .... which is easily confused in situations like this ... as to the pics ...... yes here we start the usual observations in the 'it doesn't look right' vein.... but..... In LR on my monitor the colour chart in the second image is spot on....... but .... The compressed JPEG's look different on my monitor...... The uploaded and rendered images then look different in a browser .... and also different between Safari and Opera The WB varies even WITHIN the picture ........ taking it from the neutral sensor of the Minolta meter gives different results to the grey patches on the colour chart (particularly in the second image)...... ... and things also vary depending on the profile in LE - embedded, adobe or custom ....... .... and so it goes on....... The only valid comments you can make are comparisons between the images if taken under identical circumstances, processed and viewed identically...... That's why just posting random example images on this forum is of limited benefit and often very misleading!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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