barjohn Posted August 22, 2013 Share #41 Posted August 22, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) At higher speeds it is really unknown as I know the images that have been off (in my case) were shot at the 1/30 or higher speed and at ISOs above 1600. I did have the IS set to on. I am going to set to off going forward and see what happens. Tomorrow, I am off from work so I will do some more testing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 22, 2013 Posted August 22, 2013 Hi barjohn, Take a look here Issues with New X Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ahkai Posted August 23, 2013 Share #42 Posted August 23, 2013 Still here and very happy with the Leica X Vario, so what are you shooting with,or just hanging out on the X vario forum to come up with some negative comment, you must be bored, not having an X Vario hahahaha... nice one :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted August 24, 2013 Share #43 Posted August 24, 2013 Since turning off the IS on my camera, I've had considerably more success with the image quality. Last night I shot quite a bit at ISO 3200 and was very pleased with the quality. The lower ISO settings have been producing some really nice results. Below are two samples, one at 3200 and one at 400. Pretty obvious which is which. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/211136-issues-with-new-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2404544'>More sharing options...
popeab Posted August 26, 2013 Share #44 Posted August 26, 2013 Hi, I had a few out of focus pics as well on my XV. Thought that it was caused by the man behind the camera. Yesterday I took a few pics of my children and indeed I found a few OOF pics that were taken within a few secs after each other. I was sure to have the green rectangle on the eyes of my child but there was a clear misfocus on at least 10% of the pics. Looking forward to find out if more users have this strange behaviour. Maybe Solms is already working on a FW upgrade. John I can confirm that! There are actually focussing errors, though (at least for me) not for 10% of all images. I'm sure I have ever seen a green rectangle and hear an acoustic signal. It seems that it has something to do with my exposure method, if I adjust the exposure to a picture important part or a part made of nearly neutral gray with spot metering to improve the exposure result. Somehow the focus here is sometimes not afterwards. Update: I've proves my pics fraom last holidays on mount Etna and on Iceland. AWB is fine to all images, no problems! The percentage of non sharply focused pictures is actually low at around 1.5%. That might be my mistake rather than that of the camera. In some of the few blurry pictures on Iceland, it was also very windy at shutter speeds of 1/30 sec Thus, the error rate is below 1%. :-) Best regards Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
symmetron Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share #45 Posted August 27, 2013 This past weekend, I went to the "Corvettes at Carlisle" annual show in Carlisle, PA. I decided to "test" the XV one more time prior to sending it in to Leica. The end result is that I was unable to reproduce the issues upon which I started this thread. The images from this weekend were well focused and AWB was correct. Any poor focusing issues from this weekend were due to user error and not due to the camera not functioning properly. Also, upon review of the shots that prompted this thread originally, the focusing issues appeared to to be in "low contrast" situations and at focal lengths greater than about 50 mm. There were no issues at 35 mm and wider. There may not be any real correlation with focal length; it was just a fact in my case. The dominant factor seemed to be low contrast in the frame although, at the time, the situation did not seem to be noticeably low contrast. Probably/possibly due to the nature of the "contrast detect" focusing capabilities. Regarding AWB inconsistency, that issue presented itself originally in strong mixed lighting where the frame had both strong sunlight and shadow on the subject. It seems that the camera may have had difficulty determining which color temperature was dominant or appropriate. I've decided to hold off on sending the camera to Leica until/unless the issues present themselves again. Will update this thread as appropriate. BTW, regarding IS. I have an X1 and although I am not certain whether the X1 and X2/XV have the same IS algorithms, I experienced severe misfocusing under a wide range of conditions when leaving the IS "on" all the time. So much so that when I contacted Leica for this issue, they asked me to send in some samples. End result was that I never use IS and the X1 performed acceptably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted August 30, 2013 Share #46 Posted August 30, 2013 BTW, regarding IS. I have an X1 and although I am not certain whether the X1 and X2/XV have the same IS algorithms, I experienced severe misfocusing under a wide range of conditions when leaving the IS "on" all the time. So much so that when I contacted Leica for this issue, they asked me to send in some samples. End result was that I never use IS and the X1 performed acceptably. That is exactly my experience with the X Vario. Since turning off the IS, everything has been tack sharp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
symmetron Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share #47 Posted August 30, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, after a weekend trip of using the XV where everything seemed fine, yesterday I again experienced the issues which prompted this thread originally. Bummer! So I sent the XV in to Leica Allendale today and we'll see what happens. BTW, I wish the IS was the issue with my XV, but it's turned OFF and always has been based on my X1 experience. Life would have been much simpler if it was just a SETTING issue. Will advise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted August 30, 2013 Share #48 Posted August 30, 2013 I did some real world testing today in ideal bright daylight conditions. Shutter speed was never less than 640, all at ISO 100. I varied between spot and 1-Point AF. Out of 32 shots 5 were out of focus. I am including 100% crop samples to illustrate what I am seeing. I could not identify the cause from this test. These were all shot hand held but in every case but one you can see that the camera did not select the right focus point. In one, I can't tell what the camera did as the entire image is out of focus. In every case the green focus box and beep confirmed focus. Unfortunately, the EXIF data does not capture the focus mode but in looking at the expanded EXIF I can't find any clue as to why it miss-focused. In the first image, the focus point was the palm trees in the center of the image. In each case, I have draw a rectangle to show where the camera was focused. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/211136-issues-with-new-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2409431'>More sharing options...
barjohn Posted August 30, 2013 Share #49 Posted August 30, 2013 Clearly, there is a problem with the camera's AF and it needs to be addressed by Leica. Perhaps, someone with connections to Leica can point them to this thread and they can help us to resolve this issue. I would be pleased to help with beta testing if they desired my help. It appears to be a software bug of some sort. The last shots with the lamp top as the target were quite repeatable. The first one with the palm trees did not repeat and appeared to be more random. I am going to retest and see what I get on a second set of tests. I may throw MF into the picture too, just in case it is due to a lens element sticking during AF, though if that happened I would not of thought the software would have confirmed focus. I'm still not sure why it didn't show during my extensive tripod testing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted August 31, 2013 Share #50 Posted August 31, 2013 Repeated test above and the results were that out of 21 shots 3 were out of focus, the 8th, 9th and 11th shots. Subject was the same so I won't bother posting images unless someone wants to see them. I also can't identify a particular focal length as it seems to happen at all focal lengths. I welcome suggested test scenarios to try and isolate the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beewee Posted August 31, 2013 Share #51 Posted August 31, 2013 Purchased an X Vario on 15 July and after two "outings" determined that my camera needs to be sent to Leica to be repaired. I am experiencing erratic AWB and very inconsistent and soft focusing, and/or misfocusing. I own a an X1 so I'm use to poor focusing. About three weeks ago, I took the XV on a trip to the beach. The shots that were dead-on were tremendous, but I got a very large number of misfocused shots. I typically use Autofocus and 1 point focus. I chalked it up to user error, new camera, poor technique, etc. However, some of the shots were no brainers, i.e. dead-on focus (green confirmation), but from one frame to the next, and only seconds apart, some shots were in focus, and other had essentially a focus shift or misfocus (lookat the lapels on the jacket) . Here are a couple of examples. The focus point was the eyes in both photos only seconds apart. Then this week, went on a short family trip and the same thing happened with the focusing described above, AND I now also observed a significant difference in AWB results under the same lighting and within a few seconds of each other for a number of shots. See these four. Obvious WB differences in shot 3 and 4. In shots 5 and 6, shot 5 has nothing on focus )or soft focus) though the eyes were the focus point and I had green confirmation, while on number 6, same focus point and good results. Pretty disappointed. The shots that were dead-on were great. I'm not new to Leica issues, but this is very frustrating. I wish I had just bought a DL6. Never have I had this many missed shots. Same problem with mine. See here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-x1-forum/291318-anybody-switched-m-x-vario-experiences-2.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beewee Posted August 31, 2013 Share #52 Posted August 31, 2013 Repeated test above and the results were that out of 21 shots 3 were out of focus, the 8th, 9th and 11th shots. Subject was the same so I won't bother posting images unless someone wants to see them. I also can't identify a particular focal length as it seems to happen at all focal lengths. I welcome suggested test scenarios to try and isolate the problem. Seems like the 3 of 21 misses correlates pretty well with what I've seen in my shots which is roughly 10% based on 300+ shots taken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
symmetron Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share #53 Posted August 31, 2013 John, It appears in your photos that the camera is back focusing. So is mine when the problem presents itself. Never front focusing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2013 Share #54 Posted August 31, 2013 via google translator: To repeatedly described and shown autofocus problem "leica X Vario". 1) the reliability is not leica-like. 2) looking for possible causes I found this product*: A Look through the Vario-Elmar Lens / date 12.aug.2013 / *author: Peter Karbe, chief designer at leica lens. >>> *page 4 <<< in original english version: Q: What can you tell us about the image quality from the minimum focusing distance to infinity? A: The lens must be able to maintain this sharpness not only when focused at infinity, but also at is closest focusing distance, which, in the case of the Vario-Elmar is 30 centimeters at the lowest end ...... and still only 20 cm at its longest focal length..... Only one single element is used for focusing - namely the rear lens - while shifting the remaining lens group takes care of changing the focal length. The use of a single and relatively lightweight lens is particularly advantageous for the autofocus system, as the focusing motor now only needs to move a low mass. This in turn increases the focusing speed, which is a particularly critical factor for a contrast-detection autofocus system. .............. via google translator: in responce to the question I suspect the cause of the AF problem. wbr klaus-michael heib Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted September 1, 2013 Share #55 Posted September 1, 2013 AF is all very well but manual focus is invariably more fun, sometimes faster and always as accurate as the photographer can make it. I like the way MF is implemented on the XV. I especially like being able to move the focus patch to exactly where I want it on the screen. I use MF a lot even though I haven’t experienced the problems with AF that others seem to be running into. AF is slow in some conditions but I haven’t found it inaccurate as long as my focus target contains sufficient contrast for the camera to draw a bead on. I’m not suggesting that anyone should switch to MF if they prefer AF but, if you want ultimate control of focus and your eyesight is up to it, I do recommend giving MF a try. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted September 1, 2013 Share #56 Posted September 1, 2013 I have not had a misfocus problem. I only take single shots and only use the small focus point at centre. Were you guys getting this doing continuous shots ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
waloszek Posted September 1, 2013 Share #57 Posted September 1, 2013 I have various issues with AF, sometimes erratic errors as bar john shows in this thread, sometimes slight focusing errors that can only be seen at larger magnifications. I think that both issues are independent of each other. I rarely use continuous shooting -- my AF issues are not related to this. The only hint for a cause that I see at the moment is that barjohn had no AF issues when he took test photos with a tripod, and that there are issues with hand-held shots. But I do not have an explanation for this "observation"... Best regards, Gerd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted September 1, 2013 Share #58 Posted September 1, 2013 . I’m not suggesting that anyone should switch to MF if they prefer AF but, if you want ultimate control of focus and your eyesight is up to it, I do recommend giving MF a try. I agree The MF implementation mechanically is the best I have ever seen on a fully electronic camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
waloszek Posted September 1, 2013 Share #59 Posted September 1, 2013 I believe that it would be of some help to know which focus mode was set and which distance the camera selected. I therefore inspected the manufacturer-specific fields in the Exif data with ExifTool (I did this for my Ricoh some time ago...). At the moment I can give away this information: Field 0x0404: Focus mode (1 = 1-point, 4 = 11-point, 5 = Spot, 6 = face recognition, 0 = MF) Field 0x040a: The first of the four two-byte fields seems to contain the distance setting; values start with 300 at 30cm and end with 65535 at infinity; there seems to be a jump in the values at around 4m - I need to investigate that further) Best regards, Gerd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
symmetron Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share #60 Posted September 1, 2013 My focusing issues seem to be at a range between about 2.5 feet (or whatever just outside of min. focusing distance) and 8-10 feet and I always have used single point focus. As I stated previously I have soft focus and mis-focus where upon inspection, the mis-focus is almost always back focus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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