SBC Posted August 13, 2013 Share #1 Posted August 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) No....but seriously: They need to release a digital full frame EVF M, or a totally stripped FF rangefinder for around 4k. I know that they focus on protecting the M sales but if they don't fill this gap another company will (ie sony FF nex or even better Fuji FF). There will always be people who need the best and will buy leica's most expensive cameras why not create a camera that would be insanely successful and use those profits to take their technology to new heights. Also, the way I see it, once you buy leica glass you are done. It is too expensive not to be M mount loyal. Sell leica lenses and you will be selling generations worth of digital technology. Selfishly, I just want they to release a digital camera in my price point! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Hi SBC, Take a look here Leica is blowing it. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
macjonny1 Posted August 13, 2013 Share #2 Posted August 13, 2013 You forgot in your title "IMHO" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted August 13, 2013 Share #3 Posted August 13, 2013 I think many of us were disappointed when the X-Vario turned out to be an X3 instead of a Mini M, but I believe Leica is well aware of the pent up demand for an M mount EVIL camera and are working on a solution. Some people believe a Leica EVIL will be a return to the CL days where sales of the M5 were cannibalized by the less expensive sibling, but I do not believe this will happen. The markets for a high end digital rangefinder and a less expensive EVIL are very different, but certainly there is the possibility of overlap amongst Leica owners and many M9 and M240 owners would welcome a new Leica EVIL as a second camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBC Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share #4 Posted August 13, 2013 You forgot in your title "IMHO" Ha! I just posted a opinion on a photo forum. IMHO should be assumed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted August 13, 2013 Share #5 Posted August 13, 2013 This has all been discussed before, including my classic thread The RF mechanism is a big draw of the Leica system to afficiendoes. If you favour MF you have to use a real M to understand this. Sure Leica might make cheaper M mount cameras but they are not in the business of competing with Sony. That would be suicide. Only 50k M9s were sold, Sony's weekly production...... Leica will continue to offer something different, more hand made and more luxurious. They will never compete on in house cameras on spec. alone. They have a design agreement with Panasonic to do that ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted August 13, 2013 Share #6 Posted August 13, 2013 Ha! I just posted a opinion on a photo forum. IMHO should be assumed. Not a bad idea in theory perhaps, but Leica is hard-pressed to begin to meet even a small percentage of the demand for the M. How could they dream of taking on a major new product anytime soon? Right now I am betting they won't get the M grips and other accessories out before the first anniversary date of the formal M announcement last September 19. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted August 13, 2013 Share #7 Posted August 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) The RF mechanism is a big draw of the Leica system to afficiendoes. If you favour MF you have to use a real M to understand this. Sorry, Harold, but this makes no sense. Introducing CMOS sensors to the M has opened up more lenses, video, live view, peaking and EVFs, all of which obviate the necessity of the RF. I'm not saying the RF is obsolete - far from it, but it's not necessary. Before anyone says M means messucher, can I refer you to the MD, and also point out that the reference to M in any such camera is to the MMMMount ... Sure Leica might make cheaper M mount cameras but they are not in the business of competing with Sony. That would be suicide. I don't understand this point. If they release a full frame, M mount interchangeable lens camera without a rangefinder, why does that automatically assume they are competing with Sony. This camera would be designed to take Leica M mount lenses, not Sony lenses. Does the fact that Leica has just released the X-Vario in the same price bracket as the RX-1 mean that Leica is competing with Sony? I guess they both make cameras ... Only 50k M9s were sold, Sony's weekly production...... Where does this figure come from? and why is it relevant? The M9 struggled to meet demand for the first few years, and the M seems to be following a similar course, Leica's cheaper cameras are more available, and probably sell in greater numbers because they are cheaper than the M. The M cameras will always be the Leica flagship. Cheaper Leica offerings will be made in greater numbers, otherwise it would be rather pointless making them. Who knows what the true production numbers are? I thought the whole planned M9 production sold in the first year ... Leica will continue to offer something different, more hand made and more luxurious. They will never compete on in house cameras on spec. alone. They have a design agreement with Panasonic to do that ..... I think that's the point every one has been making - such a camera would be different from anything else on the market, and linked to Leica glass makes it very handmade, expensive, and it's up to Leica to make it luxurious - I'm sure they would do that as a matter of course. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted August 13, 2013 Share #8 Posted August 13, 2013 could the new Leica C type 112 camera be the answer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted August 13, 2013 Share #9 Posted August 13, 2013 ... and use those profits to take their technology to new heights. Their technology? The RF mechanism peaked a while back and they are still the best optical engineers out there. As for everything else they have no 'technology' to speak of. They use old stuff from other people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted August 13, 2013 Share #10 Posted August 13, 2013 They need to release a digital full frame EVF M, or a totally stripped FF rangefinder for around 4k. A cheaper M-mount camera would be very exciting. It could expand the pool of M lens buyers to people who have a lower price point for entry into the system. Once they are invested in the system with a camera body, they would likely buy a Leica lens or two, which they would never have bought had the camera body not reached their price point for entry. (Of course, they might be happy with CV or Zeiss lenses.) Others would buy it simply as a backup or 2nd body. I think the business decision depends on whether the company can make something interesting and good for around $4K ... and still call it an M camera ... and still make a decent profit on each unit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted August 13, 2013 Share #11 Posted August 13, 2013 ... and still call it an M camera ... That bit shouldn't be a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 13, 2013 Share #12 Posted August 13, 2013 Their technology? The RF mechanism peaked a while back and they are still the best optical engineers out there. As for everything else they have no 'technology' to speak of. They use old stuff from other people. Yup. Like a custom- designed processor and sensor.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugivza Posted August 13, 2013 Share #13 Posted August 13, 2013 No....but seriously: They need to release a digital full frame EVF M, or a totally stripped FF rangefinder for around 4k. I know that they focus on protecting the M sales but if they don't fill this gap another company will (ie sony FF nex or even better Fuji FF). There will always be people who need the best and will buy leica's most expensive cameras why not create a camera that would be insanely successful and use those profits to take their technology to new heights. Also, the way I see it, once you buy leica glass you are done. It is too expensive not to be M mount loyal. Sell leica lenses and you will be selling generations worth of digital technology. Selfishly, I just want they to release a digital camera in my price point! To my mind this does not make sense at all, as Leica's brand recognition is upmarket quality. It has always been, and hopefully will remain an icon of excellence. It is not a race to the bottom in a market where Canon and Nikon are finding their lower cost options are fighting for market share against mobile phones, which are becoming evermore sophisticated. Leica has, and hopefully will always be, a quality product at the top end of the market. Its death knell will be when it tries to compete in the mass market. Its recent history has shown that it is now established as a quality, albeit expensive product. When Rolls Royce tries to compete with Mazda it will be "game over". My view - yours may differ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted August 13, 2013 Share #14 Posted August 13, 2013 I'm using technology in the 'cutting edge' sense. Steam trains are wonderful technology, and custom built, but long since superseded. The processor is the old Maestro from Fujitsu isn't it? And the custom sensor has certainly caught up with the 5DII from many years back? They can't even machine a conical M3 internal thread properly at the moment..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 13, 2013 Share #15 Posted August 13, 2013 I see. The "newest is best" school of thought...Cutting edge has no place in quality gear imo, I would never accept it in my professional tools, being trained in concepts like evidence-based and golden standard. You still have to bolster your assertion of "other people". Do you really think Leica, instead of having their sensor designed and built to their specification (which was the case with the Maestro as well) should have their own chip factory? Fortunately they are smarter than that in Solms. and at Shin-Yurakucho Bldg., 12-1, Yurakucho 1-chome, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo as well for that matter. The only companies that are building their own electronic components are giants like for instance Sony and Canon, etc. None of those could even offer a sensor that was suitable for full-frame DRF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted August 13, 2013 Share #16 Posted August 13, 2013 Newest is best are your words not mine, Jaap. And I believe you are however currently shooting with an MM and an M240, right? So I would assume you've perceived some improvement in the "newest" in order to switch from the perfectly capable M3? And nope, I don't think Leica should invest in a chip factory. Nor did I say so. Is the Maestro processor Leica proprietary technology? Do they own the patent? Is the CMOS sensor? I'm just pointing out that Leica don't have technology that they can take to new heights with profits from the camera the OP was talking about. They wisely use what profits they have to maintain their little niche and status in that market. If they had profits to pour anywhere I would rather see it going on software, electronic design and QC improvements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted August 13, 2013 Share #17 Posted August 13, 2013 As I have expressed it earlier, I am not very keen on the M 240 with the optional EVF. I find the external EVF to kill the compactness and body integrity of the traditional M design. For lenses between 28 and 85 mm, I would rather use the RF as it is much more convenient, and in practical use, more accurate than LV. For lenses wider than 28 mm or longer than 85 mm, as well as potential macro lenses, the RF is useless, and I would rather have a dedicated non RF body with integral EVF. That is why I have always favoured a 2 body solution, one with RF and one with integral EVF. I think Leica will bring this additional EVF body by the end of next year, if I understood Dr. Kaufmann's allusions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 13, 2013 Share #18 Posted August 13, 2013 Leica is of your way of thinking, I guess. They felt the EVF is an auxiliary system and as such should be removable. And they improved the rangefinder at the same time. A dedicated EVF camera for wide-angle and macro use will create the necessity of carrying two bodies - only few users will like doing that. Zeiss' dedicated wideancle RF body flopped because of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 13, 2013 Share #19 Posted August 13, 2013 They use old stuff from other people. If you did not mean this as a call for newest technology and own production, what is the meaning of this fling then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted August 13, 2013 Share #20 Posted August 13, 2013 Leica is of your way of thinking, I guess. They felt the EVF is an auxiliary system and as such should be removable. And they improved the rangefinder at the same time.A dedicated EVF camera for wide-angle and macro use will create the necessity of carrying two bodies - only few users will like doing that. Zeiss' dedicated wideancle RF body flopped because of it. Of course, I don't expect others to share my shooting preferences, and for those who want to carry one body, the external EVF is still a good solution. But if Leica introduces a FF EVF body, I will certainly buy that as a dedicated UWA/Tele body. Besides, most people here seem to own several Leica M bodies, so it's not really a very far fetched idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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