M9 Colors at Night — Best Way to Shoot High ISO?

[erl]

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The payoff is that you never have to worry about changing ISO, and you essentially never blow highlights. I basically shoot digital cameras like film, so I rarely have a million shots at a time to pour through. If you're a wedding photographer or something, though, I can see how it would be an issue.

Douglas, the essence is "what works for you", for all of us.

With film I couldn't change ISO (until #36). With digital I can and frequently use that facility to advantage. I rate it5 as a definite advantage, especially compared to using film, which I still use and love. "floating your boat and all that".

 

Changing ISO easily is an advantage, not a compulsion, but only if you choose to, such as moving indoors from outside and vice versa. Shooting film or digital should be subject or 'brief' driven. Not film or digital driven. For the same brief I shoot near enough to the same number of shots with either. PP for both is abouit the same time, just different processes. That of course is for my workflow. Others will differ.

 

Again, it is what works for you/me.

The only inflexible part is "you must enjoy".

[Guest malland]

Moderator: moderate thyself to stay on topic. douglas3f was responding with a statement on not having to change ISO being an advantage of the high-ISO technique under discussion, while your statement...well, you can see yourself.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Surabaya-Johnny

[erl]

Well, if had a rubber band, I could stretch a point and say I 'was' on topic, but knowing my luck it would break.

 

Anyway, I hope to comment a bit more 'on topic' as soon as I get other stuff out of the way.

[Paul J]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade but here's an opinion for some balance anyway.

 

If you really need to do this technique then you do need enough base exposure to take care of the shadows. Most of the histograms here are going to make for terrible prints but there really isn't much you can do to rescue it. Even on a backlit monitor a find I don't find the effect pleasing to look at. Also all that brushing with a feathered brush degrades the image creating hazy undefined edges and completely unmatched and unbalanced shadows that are reminiscent of badly printed and badly exposed neg. It's not an effect I would want to try replicate imo tbh. In this instance I would in the least brush in a whole other file and mask the area off cleanly with a pen tool, using layer blend modes to take care of the colour shifts.

 

Though of corse, it all depends on what you are taking photos for though. If you're doing it for yourself and are happy with small jpgs then it's fine. If you want to show the images though it changes. I'm sure it's a fun excercise and I'm all for experimentation but personally I would rather spend that time experimenting in camera with photography and a camera that is better suited to it rather than spending hours in front of a computer. ymmv + imo of corse!

 

The experimentation is commendable though.

[Guest malland]

Paul, I don't know what your referring to about "all that brushing with a feathered brush". In only two of the pictures that I posted here I've done some normal dodging and burning; the rest is all using the normal tools in the Basic Panel of LR4/5.

 

As for dark shadows with no details, most of these pictures are taken on very dark nights in streets mainly without lighting except for the fluorescent lights, with rapid fall-off of light. Color shifts are what happens in the mixed lighting that I've neen shooting under and I don't want to get rid of them.

 

 

 

Elmarit-21 ASPH

Bangkok

 

 

 

 

Elmarit-21 ASPH

Bangkok

 

 

 

 

Elmarit-21 ASPH

Bangkok

 

 

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Surabaya-Johnny

[Guido]

Though is it M9 specific? Is it not just improvements in the post processing algorithms in software such as Lightroom? So is it not as applicable to all bodies' date=' from all brands? Which would mean that a 'better' low light body of the M9 era, say the 5DII has also received a parallel relative increase in quality?[/quote']

I've enjoyed shooting with this technique for several weeks now since the thread started, and also did tests with my other cameras. The results are really quite camera-specific, and for some reason the M9 and its firmware seem to lend themselves to this technique particularly well. For example, I did tests with a P45+ medium-format CCD back (base ISO of 50, configurable up to 800) and found that ISO 50 pushed to 800 in post was virtually identical to ISO 800 in-camera (i.e. unfortunately no noise benefits).

[gjames9142]

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This has been quite an interesting thread -- although I don't think I have read it all. I would raise a general point. Mitch's street photographs have much better colour than you normally see with digital photography -- far more natural. They are night photographs, but they are basically about available, artificial light. There is a history of night photography that works with natural light, or absence of light. I am thinking of Bill Brandt's photographs of London during the blitz, done by moonlight, or by John Gossage's large format book on pre-89 Berlin. Both are b/w, but they deal with real night, not the artificially lit night. Don't know if much has been done like this in colour. I am posting a modest M9 shot I made a couple of years ago in the back yard of my house in the city. The exif shows an exposure of 32 secs. base ISO, 35 Cron V4. There is tons of shadow detail. I have been asked by dslr guys if my camera has image stabilization. I always say, yes. It's called a tripod.

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[Guest malland]

Geoff, what I found amazing is how beautiful the colors often look in these pictures with (mainly) fluorescent lighting outdoors at night. This surprised me because I've been conditioned to think how ugly fluorescent lighting is in shopping centers, dull and flat; but in some of these night pictures, it seems to me, even the fluorescent tubes themselves look good.

 

(BTW, I've always liked you photographs in the Olmstead book).

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Surabaya-Johnny

[charlesphoto99]

The payoff is that you never have to worry about changing ISO, and you essentially never blow highlights. I basically shoot digital cameras like film, so I rarely have a million shots at a time to pour through. If you're a wedding photographer or something, though, I can see how it would be an issue.

 

And I basically shoot digital cameras like I did film: lots of it! And even more so because no worries about $ for processing. I think that it's editing that people need help with - just because one can shoot so much more with digital than film doesn't mean one has to then show others that much more. Sorry, a bit off topic. but rant for the day. .

 

I have tried the technique in the past (both on purpose and to recover an accident) and can say it works. Just a matter of coming up with a good preset for those shots and then going through the rigamarole of applying it. As a pro not something I need to do with all the other time spent in front of LR. But as a casual shooter trying to eke the most out of the M9 it's a good way to go.

[charlesphoto99]

Mitch - I love shooting under fluorescent tubes! Not so much the spiral fluorescents made to replace household bulbs. But tubes are real nice. It's why the film industry uses them so much (Kino-flos). And I love un or under correcting the wb when the subject suits it. Check out Jonas Bendikson's work on the ex-Soviet Union satellite countries. Most shot on slide film, and it makes you really see how to use un-corrected light sources to the benefit of the image's storytelling. Like I've always said, shoot the M9 like it's full of slide film.

[gjames9142]

Mitch , The Olmsted book was such a long time ago, but it was a great project that sustained me over quite a few years. Given that we photographed more than 80 sites over six or seven, the book doesn't really do justice to the archive or to Olmsted, but what the heck. If I ever get the energy. I'll do my own book, but it's not a priority. Lee did his own book, although it's not really about Olmsted so much as his very particular vision of space and vegetation.

[Guest malland]

Which book was that?

[gjames9142]

Lee Friedlander Photographs/F L Olmsted Landscapes DAP publisher

[Guest malland]

Just adding a few more pictures taken with this technique in the hope that others will do so as well.

 

 

 

Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 pushed 4.15 stops on main subjects | f/4.0 | 1/60 sec

Bangkok

 

 

 

 

Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 pushed 0.15 stops | f/2.8 | 1/60 sec

Bangkok

 

 

 

 

Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 pushed 1.5 stops | f/3.4 | 1/60 sec

Bangkok

 

 

 

 

Elmarit-21 ASPH | ISO 640 pushed 1.3 stops | f/2.8 | 1/60 sec

Bangkok

 

 

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Surabaya-Johnny

[sblutter]

Mitch / Malland:

 

You've shown us a lot of pics in [repetitious] conditions that you've obviously mastered and no doubt have given new inspiration to many including me about the possibilities of the M9. Bravo, and thank you!

 

Have you tackled other environs with this technique - can you show us results?

 

I don't live where your shooting conditions occur in the slightest, thanks

[rob_w]

I have switched to using this technique since Mitch first posted it and have to say it works very well for me. Typical example, in a restaurant at night for example, using 640 and pushing around 2.5 stops, the result is so much better than using the M9 at 2500. Plus, as Mitch has pointed out, by fine-tuning the exposure increase you can gain the look of an evening shot rather than have the camera try to turn it into daylight.

 

At first I tried to be clever about it, but eventually I just set the camera to the minimum acceptable values for aperture and shutter, ignored the dark result and relied on Lightroom to turn up the exposure later. The pictures were all there. (Rather like developing in the old dark room days -- they emerge from the murky blackness and delight you.)

 

Altogether very pleased.

[Guest malland]

Mitch / Malland:

 

You've shown us a lot of pics in [repetitious] conditions that you've obviously mastered and no doubt have given new inspiration to many including me about the possibilities of the M9. Bravo, and thank you!

 

Have you tackled other environs with this technique - can you show us results?

 

I don't live where your shooting conditions occur in the slightest, thanks

Actually, the lighting in post #174 is quite different in each of the four pictures, both in terms of the nature of the light source and the intensity. I suggest that you give it a try.

 

—Mitch/Paris

Surabaya-Johnny

[AceVentura1986]

I had shot this way on my M8 for years but got away from it w my ME. Recently, I went back to this system and shot a performance at 640, f/2 and 1/45th. The images ranged from muddy to black but when I pushed they just opened up beautifully and with an apparent dynamic range lacking in the native higher ISOs. Fwiw, I pushed between 1 and 2 stops alone but could have pushed 3 if I needed. An added benefit is that none of the highlights are blown out.

 

So, I went back and started looking at old M8 photos and found one taken at night at ISO 160 with only reflected street light. The image was for all practical purposes black because I had forgotten to change ISOs after dusk. I pushed it 3 stops and out popped a very usable image of a friend on Martha's Vineyard. I knew it had been taken on the Vineyard but had no idea about the subject because it was so dark.

 

I'm sold. From now on, ISO 640, f/2 and 1/45th are my nighttime settings.

[tomasis7]

malland, have you compared m9 to M re colors?

 

I still use rd1 and love ccd look. Seems that filming cameras stick with ccd for best quality.

 

4 stops push, thats impressive! is it that used with LR?

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[Guest malland]

tomasis7, as this thread makes clear from the outset the technique discussed here is with LR4/5, since other software may have different results. While I have looked at M240 colors, I have not done so in the context of the high-ISOtechnique discussed here.

 

—Mitch/Paris

Surabaya-Johnny