dewilde Posted December 16, 2013 Share #641 Posted December 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Oh, but I've had so much fun for years being entertained by all the forum madness, happily taking pics with my inferior Leica lenses. Not boring at all. Jeff Jeff, by your tone, it's obvious you didn't pay $7k for a defective lens. And if by chance you did, and don't notice the glaring flaws (no pun intended), then may I suggest you save money and buy a point and shoot future happy picture taking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 16, 2013 Posted December 16, 2013 Hi dewilde, Take a look here APO Summicron 50/2 ASPH: Central veiling flare / fogging. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted December 16, 2013 Share #642 Posted December 16, 2013 Jeff, by your tone, it's obvious you didn't pay $7k for a defective lens. Nor did I spend $7k on a non-defective lens. You clearly missed my point. This recent post by Puts captures much of my thoughts regarding current lens technology, and how that fits in the broader, and more practical, total workflow. My 50 Summilux Asph is good enough for my needs, which is about making prints, but that's just me; others have a different view. To each his/her own. But, on another level, anyone who doesn't know by now that Leica has had issues with new camera/lens introductions hasn't been paying attention. Watching the beta testing (in effect) by 'early adopters' has become all too predictable. And watching those who predictably buy every new Leica 'super' product, sometimes in multiples, is amusing...to me. Forum debates, generally with the usual suspects, just add to my amusement. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 16, 2013 Share #643 Posted December 16, 2013 ... then may I suggest you save money and buy a point and shoot future happy picture taking. I did save my money. I am happy taking pics. And a 'point and shoot' can work just fine for certain purposes as part of an overall workflow. It's the photographer, not the camera, in many cases. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted December 16, 2013 Share #644 Posted December 16, 2013 There is no lens that renders like the 50 Apo when shot wide open. The combination of sharpness and fall-off makes the photos look almost three-dimensional. I don't own one, but I have tried one and if I had one, I would shoot it wide open whenever possible. Too bad there are problems with it. I own a 50lux aspherical, and I do see a difference at f2. As and aside, I was just looking over the new price increases and I must say that Leica are clearly out of their minds. If the 50 Apo was the only Leica lens over $7,000, I could say that this is ok, but the average price of their lenses has just become absurd. I'm glad I already own enough of them to happily keep photographing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted December 16, 2013 Share #645 Posted December 16, 2013 I did save my money. I am happy taking pics. And a 'point and shoot' can work just fine for certain purposes as part of an overall workflow. It's the photographer, not the camera, in many cases. Jeff Sure, I just mean if you're OK with CVF destroying your images, then you would obviously not care what camera you used.. An iPhone would suffice.. Has nothing to do with your ability to take images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted December 16, 2013 Share #646 Posted December 16, 2013 Nor did I spend $7k on a non-defective lens. You clearly missed my point. This recent post by Puts captures much of my thoughts regarding current lens technology, and how that fits in the broader, and more practical, total workflow. My 50 Summilux Asph is good enough for my needs, which is about making prints, but that's just me; others have a different view. To each his/her own. But, on another level, anyone who doesn't know by now that Leica has had issues with new camera/lens introductions hasn't been paying attention. Watching the beta testing (in effect) by 'early adopters' has become all too predictable. And watching those who predictably buy every new Leica 'super' product, sometimes in multiples, is amusing...to me. Forum debates, generally with the usual suspects, just add to my amusement. Jeff Yeah, I can agree with this as far as camera bodies are concern, and yet I bought an M240 (two actually) knowing this to be the case. But honestly not all new lenses are defective out of the gate, in fact the last few newly introduced Leica lenses I bought were just fine (35FLE, 75Summarit, 21SEM).. And in my case, I tried a pre-production prototype 50APO and it worked better then my current production lens. So I think it's fair that it comes as a shock that so many 50APO lenses are defective, and to such a degree, and also only some of the problems the lens has can be fixed by Leica. And if nobody makes a big deal about it, Leica won't admit problems, and nothing will get fixed. My 50Lux-asph doesn't have problems, but it also draws differently then the 50APO.. And I do use it sometimes over the 50APO, just like I use my Noctilux.95 sometimes over both the lux and the APO. But I do prefer the look I get from the 50APO, and I'd be much happier if it worked as it should. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 16, 2013 Share #647 Posted December 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) You missed all the forum fun regarding the rattles with the new 35 Summilux Asph (FLE)? Endlessly entertaining. But I agree...Leica should be embarrassed over the 50 Summicron APO introduction. But I doubt that will stop many here from jumping on the next $7k lens, although that assumes the lens will even be available for purchase, which is another source of fun discussion. Some of the S lenses have taken over 2 years or more to hit market. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted December 17, 2013 Share #648 Posted December 17, 2013 You missed all the forum fun regarding the rattles with the new 35 Summilux Asph (FLE)? Endlessly entertaining. But I agree...Leica should be embarrassed over the 50 Summicron APO introduction. But I doubt that will stop many here from jumping on the next $7k lens, although that assumes the lens will even be available for purchase, which is another source of fun discussion. Some of the S lenses have taken over 2 years or more to hit market. Jeff Yeah, I was seriously considering an S-system over my trusted Contax645 setup, but not after the way I was treated by Leica over this APO situation I'll go take a look at the 35FLE link.. Checked Link verdict: OK, I get it.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALD Posted December 17, 2013 Share #649 Posted December 17, 2013 Well, Leica was unwilling to send me a fresh new full box set..My options were: 1) A new lens with new serial #, but no documentation box etc. to accompany it. 2) A new lens but retaining my old lenses ring which held the serial number on it. So you're welcome to call it what you will.. I also agree though, that's not the way it should have been handled. I think for the extra $$ the box costs, they should have sent me a brand new box set, but they didn't.. And I'd have been fine with it, if the lens were back and in PERFECT working order, but the lens hood doesn't feel the same, not as nice now, and the lens is still flaring like crazy.. A much NICER and more pleasing flare, but flare that does cause me to want to delete images, and that's just due to its unpredictable nature. I was even willing to return my old box set (even though that shouldn't have been necessary).. But again, I'm not upset about that.. And I'm not upset at all anymore really, I just wish the lens performed better for the price I paid, and the subsequent month it spent in repair. I'm not even going to get into the frame line alignment issue, or the fact that my M240 seems to have knocked itself out of focus for the second time when I haven't or dismounted the lens since it was repaired. Mind you, Leica this time around, is trying to help me out. I'll update when I have a solid resolution to my problems. As a side note, the funny thing is, I used their prototype lens ages ago (a week or so before Ming put up his first blog post about the lens), and that prototype lens had NO problems whatsoever.. I just looked back at the files, and I couldn't get it to flare period, and the day I used it, it was SUNNY. Let me get this straight! You sent a lens back to Leica and they replace it with a new lens and YOU STILL HAVE FLARE!!!!!!! , So the apo summicron 50mm is basically a DUD. Is this some kind of Leica lottery? Pay Leica $8000 and we spin the wheel in our lab and if you are lucky you get the one that has no flare ? Otherwise ha-ha-ha jokes on you pal! let's play the returns game until your warranty runs out or you run out of patience and money? How can Anyone possibly place an order for this lens now and be sure they won't be screwed over? What is this ? The Forest Gump Camera factory? Life is like a box of leica lenses you don't know what you are gonna get? I am furious now! I was going to order two for Christmas and wait till 2015 to get them. Now I will just enjoy the finest leica lens that I have, the 35 Summilux fle until I get some serious statements from Leica published officially and explaining fully the entire situation and how they will be resolving it. Is it my imagination or has Leica become so rich that it has become obnoxious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted December 17, 2013 Share #650 Posted December 17, 2013 Let me get this straight! You sent a lens back to Leica and they replace it with a new lens and YOU STILL HAVE FLARE!!!!!!! , So the apo summicron 50mm is basically a DUD. Is this some kind of Leica lottery? Pay Leica $8000 and we spin the wheel in our lab and if you are lucky you get the one that has no flare ? Otherwise ha-ha-ha jokes on you pal! let's play the returns game until your warranty runs out or you run out of patience and money? How can Anyone possibly place an order for this lens now and be sure they won't be screwed over? What is this ? The Forest Gump Camera factory? Life is like a box of leica lenses you don't know what you are gonna get? I am furious now! I was going to order two for Christmas and wait till 2015 to get them. Now I will just enjoy the finest leica lens that I have, the 35 Summilux fle until I get some serious statements from Leica published officially and explaining fully the entire situation and how they will be resolving it. Is it my imagination or has Leica become so rich that it has become obnoxious. Seems about right.. That and the M240 problems! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted December 17, 2013 Share #651 Posted December 17, 2013 Seems about right.. That and the M240 problems! In all fairness, they'll probably sort it out by 2015. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted December 17, 2013 Share #652 Posted December 17, 2013 Took me three copies of the 50 Lux Asph, new out of the box, before I found one that did not back-focus. WTF! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted December 17, 2013 Share #653 Posted December 17, 2013 As I understand the issue is mostly to do with defective lens coatings. I guess there are reflective components pinging on the inside which the coatings are not taking care of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erudolph Posted December 18, 2013 Share #654 Posted December 18, 2013 Received mine back this evening. Was shipped from San Francisco Sept 28. Total time in Solms, 8 weeks. No indication as to what was done other than a certificate of repair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted December 18, 2013 Share #655 Posted December 18, 2013 [quote=erudolph;2582754 No indication as to what was done other than a certificate of repair. That is the problem-no communication on a 2 month repair! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted December 18, 2013 Share #656 Posted December 18, 2013 In all fairness, they'll probably sort it out by 2015. You could be right since it is only 12 months away plus a few days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted December 18, 2013 Share #657 Posted December 18, 2013 As I understand the issue is mostly to do with defective lens coatings. I guess there are reflective components pinging on the inside which the coatings are not taking care of. Have not heard that one before. Reflective components I have seen, but since Leica coats the glass what are we to think. Maybe they let some of the new help coat APO50 lenses for OJT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted December 18, 2013 Share #658 Posted December 18, 2013 Have not heard that one before. Reflective components I have seen, but since Leica coats the glass what are we to think. Maybe they let some of the new help coat APO50 lenses for OJT. From the horses mouth apparently. Update (9/4/13): We have some further details about the exact nature issue from Leica after speaking about it more with them... The problem is due to the anti-reflective coating not being within tolerances. We asked if there were a means to determine, perhaps by serial number range - if a lens is affected by this. Unfortunately, there isn't. The reason being that the elements are coated in batches, and aren't necessarily assembled together or at the same time with the lenses as a whole. So if you own one, you're advised to perform your own tests, and as mentioned - contact Leica Customer Care if you have any concerns. Update (11/05/13): Besides the initially defective batch of anti-reflective coatings, it is clear that Leica is performing additional blackening/baffling internal to the lens - at least those sent in for this issue. The "silver rings" that were visible inside, from the front of the lens - are being returned black. This may have been part of the production issue (e.g. someone forgot to blacken these rings). If you see these silver rings, it may just be an indication that the lens has a potential for this issue. If you're thinking about sending your lens in, be advised that it might take an extended amount of time for a turnaround. A recent email reply from Leica service makes this unfortunately clear: Thank you for your email. I apologize for the delayed reply. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this issue has caused you. It is correct that we identified the problem and have found a solution. However, the replacements still have to be produced and there are some delays in the delivery of a necessary component. So we have no confirmed date at this time. Naturally, you can send your lens in for repair but we have to ask for your understanding that the turnaround time could be somewhat extensive at the moment. The advantage is that your lens will be registered for exchange. We will replace your lens, retaining the same serial Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted December 18, 2013 Share #659 Posted December 18, 2013 I must say the one I just received back still has the silver rings way deep down near the base of the lens and they where not "returned black". I hope this is not more BS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALD Posted December 18, 2013 Share #660 Posted December 18, 2013 Is somebody going to Solms soon? We need to get somebody to have a chat and find out what exactly is going on. I need to know when is the moment that they have sorted out all the issues and begin issuing good lenses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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