APO Summicron 50/2 ASPH: Central veiling flare / fogging

[Hey You]

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Originally Posted by marknorton.

"My lens is back from repair, difficult to detect what's been done to it. For those with an original lens, is the outside of the focussing helicoid at the back of the lens blackened? I hadn't noticed it before....."

 

To that question, another user replied, "Yes, it is."

My own reply is, "No it is not." In fact, I submitted a post to this thread several weeks ago, commenting that the helicoid was shiny and was also close to the rear lens element. I note "ripples" in the flare on my images, as if caused by reflections off the helicoid thread.

 

It seems that Leica has changed (or is not consistent in) the way it manufactures this lens. My lens is recent. I received it on September 12 this year.

 

BTW, can someone tell me what "Erfahrener Benutzer" means? It's been bugging me for years.

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[ferdinand]

 

 

BTW, can someone tell me what "Erfahrener Benutzer" means? It's been bugging me for years.

 

Nothing obscene Just a member with a large number of entities in the forum

[01af]

BTW, can someone tell me what "Erfahrener Benutzer" means? It's been bugging me for years.

Literally, "experienced user" ... of the forum, that is—i. e. a forum member with a certain number of posts under the belt. Other member titles include "Benutzer" (= user, but actually, "member" is meant), "Neuer Benutzer" (= new member), and "Moderator" (= moderator, duh). And a few more ...

[algrove]

My lens is back from repair, difficult to detect what's been done to it. For those with an original lens, is the outside of the focussing helicoid at the back of the lens blackened? I hadn't noticed it before.

 

Mark

 

I have two of these lenses in my hands right now and both have the outside of the focusing helicoid blackened.

 

One I received yesterday after many months in Solms. The other I picked up in Europe this July while the first was being "inspected" in Solms. This second lens now looks to me like the blackening is less professionally applied versus the blackening on the just received lens.

[DMJ]

Mark

 

I have two of these lenses in my hands right now and both have the outside of the focusing helicoid blackened.

 

One I received yesterday after many months in Solms. The other I picked up in Europe this July while the first was being "inspected" in Solms. This second lens now looks to me like the blackening is less professionally applied versus the blackening on the just received lens.

 

algrove,

 

You have the perfect opportunity to compare them & sufficient warrantee time to send your 'Europe' one back.

 

Martin

[Hey You]

This thread suggests several things about Leica's manufacturing tolerances : -

 

The focussing helicoid may be blackened - or it may be left bright and shiny.

If the focussing helicoid is indeed blackened, it may be done expertly - or not.

 

Perhaps such variations are due to this lens's modest price.

[dewilde]

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Mark

 

I have two of these lenses in my hands right now and both have the outside of the focusing helicoid blackened.

 

One I received yesterday after many months in Solms. The other I picked up in Europe this July while the first was being "inspected" in Solms. This second lens now looks to me like the blackening is less professionally applied versus the blackening on the just received lens.

 

PICTURES GUYS! We are all photographers.. This one was from my Iphone, but it takes the guess work out. And yes, my first lens wasn't black anywhere.. Horrid flare, this lens is black everywhere and still has bad flare.

 

http://www.adamsalt.com/fm/apoblack.jpg

 

So what would you say mine is?

[marknorton]

Sorry, will do, tomorrow.

[dewilde]

And the third triple is 50 Summicron, latest version.

 

Many conclusions can be drawn; for instance that APO-50 is marvelous at f2, that the Summilux has it's quirks, and that the ordinary Summicron is quite flare-prone.

 

When time permits, I will redo the test for scenes less demanding than the one shown here.

 

 

You've mixed up your shots 100%

I've had two 50APO lenses at this point, 3 50Crons (one older two newest pre-apo) and I have the 50lux.. I'm telling you right now, that last set you posted is from the 50APO, it's got the exact same flare signature that my two 50APO lenses had.. The bar across the top, the colors etc. exactly the same. The first cron shots you posted look similar to my 50APO but are slightly more 50cron looking (aside from the rainbow striations).

 

Please confirm this if you're still actively viewing this forum topic.

[dewilde]

I actually just read through the whole topic, and I have to be honest.. I'm kinda annoyed with a lot of the earlier posts.

 

I might need a few days to compile photographic samples of terms I use to describe common lens problems associated with flare. I will also need a few days to run some tests with various lenses (complete with conclusions and samples). It's also monsoon season here, so days may turn into weeks if the sun doesn't come out to play.

 

I will say one thing in regards to me being annoyed.. I can provoke any lens until it does something "bad." Some lenses do "bad" things unprovoked all the time, some do "bad" things infrequently while unprovoked. A few rare gem lenses are really quite resilient to provocation.

 

 

The 50 APO really is the most AMAZING lens when it's not doing "bad" things.. Which unfortunately is so frequently 80% of my shots are useless, unless I coddle the lens, in which case I can get 60% passable rate (but that also means I don't even bother shooting half the shots I would have, as I know they just wouldn't have turned out well).

Honestly the 50APO is EXACTLY what I'm looking for rendering wise, I just wish it didn't have so many problems. I'd actually almost put up with all the problems, just for the rendering (but I'll touch more on what I can't put up with when I post my BIG post).

 

Anyway, I'll leave you guys with a few images I've posted on other forums shot with the 50 APO wide open:

(shots I've liked, mainly horses, sorry no time to upload anything new right now)

 

Cherry Blossom

Wife Santa Monica <<< Bit excessive with the flare, but I managed to anticipate and control it.

Horse 1 <<< Don't mind a bit of oddball flare.

Horse 2

Horse 3

Horse 4

Horse 5

Horse 6

Horse 7

Horse 8

Horse 9

[dewilde]

As Rick knows I have what I think is a perfect copy of the APO 50. I have shot 1678 images with it on the M-240 and MM not counting today's outing. Of that total, I shot just 22 images at f16 and found an un-cropped f16 example to email to Rick. It was a large jpeg file (too big for this forum), but he could at least see how my APO50 lens performed. I also sent him a photo of a model shoot where I was shooting toward the sun which was just a bit off to the left at f2 with a 3 stop ND filter attached. With this last shot exposure was done with a Whibal card where on the M240 I repositioned the crosshairs over more of a dark area of the gray card result and then used a incident light meter to set exposure of course including the ND filter's 3 stops. I am not saying the image is fantastic, but just that camera and lens handled the exposure beautifully since it had a high amount of exposure values.

 

Yes, I have what I believe and Rick believes from what he briefly saw, alibi over the internet, a very good copy of this lens. That said I normally do not shoot it over f8, that's just me, and often f4 to f5.6 is my most common f stop range I use with this lens and most other Leica lenses too.

 

I am posting this to let some of you know that there are good copies out there, but as someone mentioned we seldom hear this on a forum where we are trying to work out problems and often forget maybe there is a silent, I hope, majority.

 

Rick, we all wish you a well deserved fantastic trip and do send us some images.

 

 

If you have a moment could you send me a PM with some links, my lens is back from Leica, and really hasn't been "fixed" the way I thought it would be fixed.

[fabrispino]

Up early this morning I did some test shots in full backlighting and I put them here for a judgment extended to the participants of this topic. Certainly if you are with the lens with a particular angle to the front light can cause problems of internal reflections, but this would happen with any lens.

The first two shots are made ​​in full backlit f16. The next two pictures give a different result: the first is obvious, the light beam that bisects the photo and the second presents no problems. These two photos were taken at ISO 320 1/60 f16 at the same time.

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[algrove]

It'd the red tractors fault.

[Ario Arioldi]

Good news:

 

09.10.2013 Service order registered on

11.10.2013 Oder confirmation sent

11.10.2013 In repair

13.12.2013 Repair completed

14.12.2013 Shipment in process.

[dewilde]

fabrispino - Do you find images 3 and 4 to be common problems with all your other M lenses? As I really haven't seen such bad flare with any of my other lenses.

[fabrispino]

dewilde:In fact I'm still trying to take shots in critical condition. I do not know how to interpret the results of the photo number 3 and 4: 3 in the picture there is a beam of light that is very noticeable while in 4 there is a part in the clearest part of the land . Since I own this lens for a very short time and these shots are simple experiments to ascertain whether this lens suffers from the problems encountered so far in others , I wish someone more knowledgeable explain to me if what you notice in my shots is a problem of veiling flare or altro.Devo also say that the first two photos were taken by pointing the lens at full backlight while the latter two having always the sun backlit the car I moved down to ground level and I had two very contrasting light situations : in front to me about a 45 ° angle on the ground soil and the sun was rising to a height of land less diffuse light due to the fact that there were not as intense rays . I think to a difference of at least 6 stop the bottom upwards .

[lct]

Not sure if you'll get the typical CVF (central veiling flare) of this lens this way folks. Just shoot a dark subject matter, like a stand of trees for instance, against the light at f/16 and you should get it if i understand well.

[fabrispino]

These three shots were done under the following conditions: full backlight, subject consists of dark foliage.

First shot: Summicron model 11819 ISO 160, f16, 1/45 sec.

Second shot: Rigid Summicron of 1963 ISO 160, f16, 1/45 sec.

Third step: ApoSummicron ASPH. ISO 160, f16, 1/45 sec.

It seems to me that all three have a pretty clear glaze. So I wonder if what we expect from a lens is to defy the laws of physics Marquises collide with slow fruits of many optical compromises ...

Thanks if anyone wants to enlighten me.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

Better choose the exact same frame and light to compare, otherwise all lenses are more or less prone to flare anyway. CFV is a central veiling flare that one can get with the 50/2 apo but also some 75/2 asph lenses i've been told. Never seen that with my own lenses (i don't own a 50/2 apo) but i shoot rarely at slow apertures. Here typical CVF from early 50/2 apos. Courtesy of Rickleica and Melantye.

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[dewilde]

dewilde:In fact I'm still trying to take shots in critical condition. I do not know how to interpret the results of the photo number 3 and 4: 3 in the picture there is a beam of light that is very noticeable while in 4 there is a part in the clearest part of the land . Since I own this lens for a very short time and these shots are simple experiments to ascertain whether this lens suffers from the problems encountered so far in others , I wish someone more knowledgeable explain to me if what you notice in my shots is a problem of veiling flare or altro.Devo also say that the first two photos were taken by pointing the lens at full backlight while the latter two having always the sun backlit the car I moved down to ground level and I had two very contrasting light situations : in front to me about a 45 ° angle on the ground soil and the sun was rising to a height of land less diffuse light due to the fact that there were not as intense rays . I think to a difference of at least 6 stop the bottom upwards .

 

Sent you a PM, but I have magenta flare all the time with the 50APO and rarely this bad with any other lens (even my 50 Noctilux f/0.95).

But to answer your question.. The actual topic of this forum is about an orb or column of fog, and its easier to see this orb by having the sun out of the frame more then what you've done. usually easier to sit a friend next to a big window that gets indirect sunlight, and take there photo while 3/4 of your body and lens are facing away from the window. You'll see it, noticeably, if your lens has problem #1 of the 3-4 problems I believe this lens suffers from. (Yes 4 problems, pending your view, but really 3 major issues that shouldn't be so easily provoked from this lens.)