APO Summicron 50/2 ASPH: Central veiling flare / fogging

[Jim.grover]

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Agreed!

[helged]

Hello...a happy ending!

 

...and I am happy to report that it is perfect...a delight...and as gorgeous as promised!

 

 

Excellent and very glad to hear! And your conclusion is in agreement with others in the forum: The lens is a marvel.

[algrove]

This is a great story. Thanks for sharing.

[k-hawinkler]

Now that lens is even more tempting - knowing that Leica stands by it!!!

[Rick]

Jim - Excellent! I have been putting off picking up my 50 APO for the last few days, but after hearing this story and how Leica stepped up for you, I went down tonight and picked mine up. So far it seems fine. This is a very well built lens. The limited pictures I've taken so far are just amazing.

 

Rick

[01af]

"As a matter of course we want to prevent that this effect occurs at any aperture."

Aww ... I wish they'd care as passionately for the Apo-Summicron-M 75 mm Asph, too, which has had the very same problem for almost a decade now.

[Paul J]

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That is out standing customer service with great initiative from Leica. Very encouraging to hear they are actively reading about issues on the forum too.

 

Acts like that really give you the reassurance needed when spending such money on equipment. Bravo.

[k-hawinkler]

Aww ... I wish they'd care as passionately for the Apo-Summicron-M 75 mm Asph, too, which has had the very same problem for almost a decade now.

 

 

Thanks. I think mine has the same problem!

[Rick]

My 50 APO seems to produce the same central decrease in contrast when stopped down as the other examples posted on this thread. The effect is very easy to produce. Even though it is cloudy and raining here, it is still blatantly noticeable when any darker object is in the central field while shooting at 5.6 or above.

 

I'm contemplating what to do at this point. We are leaving on vacation for Europe next week and I was really looking forward to using the 50 APO and leaving the 50/1.4 at home. I guess I just return it tomorrow?

 

Oh well.

[lct]

My 50 APO seems to produce the same central decrease in contrast when stopped down as the other examples posted on this thread. The effect is very easy to produce. Even though it is cloudy and raining here, it is still blatantly noticeable when any darker object is in the central field while shooting at 5.6 or above...

Even when there is no light source in the frame?

[helged]

My 50 APO seems to produce the same central decrease in contrast when stopped down as the other examples posted on this thread.

 

Why not send a few photos to Jesko v. Oeynhausen (post 239) and ask what to do? We know there are issues, but also that there are fine copies around. The same is known - of course - in Solms.

[thighslapper]

 

And then, sure enough, a few days later a replacement new lens appeared...and I am happy to report that it is perfect...a delight...and as gorgeous as promised!

 

.... which I think just provides confirmation that this is a very difficult lens to manufacture, assemble and adjust to meet the promised performance...... and that as I proposed somewhere on a similar thread that there is no absolute standard for this but a range of tolerances that produce some lenses that are better than others.

 

If it has not already been done I suspect this will end up in the hands of a few accomplished technicians who just assemble and adjust only 50 apos ..... like they have done with the Noctilux.... and you very rarely hear of a dud or one of them that needs returning for remedial adjustment....

[Rick]

These shots are taken on a rainy, overcast day. Hood extended. f2.0 and f16. You tell me what is going on?

 

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[lct]

One of the best examples of CVF i'm afraid. Hope it can be fixed by Leica.

[k-hawinkler]

These shots are taken on a rainy, overcast day. Hood extended. f2.0 and f16. You tell me what is going on?

 

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Hi Rick,

 

Whatever it is it sure is unacceptable.

It looks to me as if light is reflected off the sensor into the lens and back onto the sensor.

I have seen that effect on a hazy Telyt 280/4.8 in an extreme way that had been sitting for 30 years unsold on a dealers's shelf.

Even after a technician cleaned up the lens I will not use it beyond f/8.

Your lens certainly seems to be out of spec IMHO and should be returned.

[algrove]

Rick-Sorry to hear this. Send it back, but will you ask for another open or just save yourself the f stop aggravation?

[k-hawinkler]

Hello...a happy ending!

 

So....some of you may recall me posting images in July (page 5 of this thread)...which showed central flaring as I stopped down (leading to various of you trying similar stopping down approaches around the world!).

 

Well...my story has a happy ending...!

 

When I returned to London I sent (via my dealer) the lens back to Solms (as some of you had also suggested)...but then separately, and unsolicited, I received the following e-mail from Solms:

 

 

Dear Mr Grover

 

I have read in the Leica User Forum about your problems with central flare with your Apo-Summicron-M 1:2/50mm ASPH. As a matter of course we want to prevent that this effect occurs at any aperture.

My I ask you give me some details about what has happened about that before? You reported that it had been at Leica for repair. Can you please tell me when and where?

 

Nevertheless we would like to see the lens again to find out what is causing the problem.

Would it be OK for you if we arrange an exchange for a certain time?

 

Thank you very much for your support,

 

Best Regards, Jesko v. Oeynhausen

 

 

This was followed shortly after with this:

 

 

Dear Jim

 

I would like to give you an update on your lens.

We can reproduce the effect and we would like to replace your lens against

a new one, if this is OK for you. Unfortunately the supply chain is

interrupted at this moment, so it will take some more days to find a

replacement lens. Is that OK for you?

 

All the best,

 

--

Jesko v. Oeynhausen

 

 

And then, sure enough, a few days later a replacement new lens appeared...and I am happy to report that it is perfect...a delight...and as gorgeous as promised!

 

So in my case just a faulty lens that Leica were quick to rectify. So my sincere thanks to Jesko for caring, for reaching out to me, for fixing the problem, and making it all effortless for me.

 

Many thanks to all of you who contributed to this thread..I read them all as I waited to see how my own story would end!

Best

Jim

 

 

 

Well, I hope you are correct but I have my doubts.

May I suggest you take the following photo.

Tape a black sheet about one foot in diameter on the window from the inside.

Then step back enough so that your camera sees a bright and large rim of light around it.

Take a shot at f/16 from the inside against the light and show it here in this thread.

That way one should be easily able to discern whether there is CVF or not.

Good luck. I hope your lens works out fine and my doubts are unjustified.

Thanks.

[Rick]

Rick-Sorry to hear this. Send it back, but will you ask for another open or just save yourself the f stop aggravation?

 

I don't know if I'll ask for another. I am at a loss for what it is that could be done for this problem. I can't imagine how any amount of proper adjustment would remedy this. Have you stopped your 2 APO 50 lenses down (try f16) and looked at the LCD while shooting a subject with a darkened central zone surrounded by a lighter peripheral field?

 

This testing is not extreme. I can invasion many situations where I would be at f5.6 and higher, shooting a scene exemplified in my images posted above.

 

Like Karl, I would appreciate if Jim could shoot a test and really examine and post the results of his new lens.

 

Now having experience with this lens I am skeptical of how this could be just attributable to lens variations. I would be more impressed if Leica announced that they changed a coating or some other such physical design in response to the findings from these first copies of what should be a great lens. A formal announcement of explanation would go a long way to bringing me back to purchasing another. Sorry.

[otto.f]

I don't know if I'll ask for another. I am at a loss for what it is that could be done for this problem. I can't imagine how any amount of proper adjustment would remedy this. Have you stopped your 2 APO 50 lenses down (try f16) and looked at the LCD while shooting a subject with a darkened central zone surrounded by a lighter peripheral field?

 

This testing is not extreme. I can invasion many situations where I would be at f5.6 and higher, shooting a scene exemplified in my images posted above.

 

Yes but the whole image is not sharp, nowhere, even at f2.0. So someone in the endcontrol threw it in the wrong basket. I've had it with a Noctilux 1.0 once, I got my money back.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[helged]

These shots are taken on a rainy, overcast day. Hood extended. f2.0 and f16.

 

 

Oh ... never seen anything like this with the the APO50 I use with M240 and MM. That lens obviously needs a trip to Solms, either for repair or for replacement.

 

Have you stopped your 2 APO 50 lenses down (try f16) and looked at the LCD while shooting a subject with a darkened central zone surrounded by a lighter peripheral field?

 

Yes - but I have never seen the loss of central contrast that you show (actually, I have hardly seen any loss of central contrast at all). And I have been looking for it.