Dilema .....again

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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Guy's

I have just talked with 2 Leica dealerships in the Uk and they are guestamating 6 to 9 months for delivery of a new M (240)………..gutted

So I am in a Dilema. I don't want to wait until March 2014 to start shooting Leica again (I prematurely sold my M9P last month) so now I just have Nikon which is fine but I want to shoot Leica again.

 

I really love shooting B&W (as you can see on my website) so a good pal of mine said I should get a M Monochrom and use that until the M 240 is available. He also recommends the new 50mm f2 Summocron rather than the Noctilux but I have already made my mind up on getting the 0.9 Noctilux .

So what does the team think about that. Money will be tight but I have a good job so I am not worried about that, I just don't know if it will end up being a waist of money seeing as the new M shoots in both B&W and colour, but the idea of having two bodies the MM with the 50 Noctilux and the M240 having the 21 lux sounds just the ticket………………..what do y'al think y'al:p

[jaapv]

What lenses do you have? There is no sense in buying a lens just because you want it. As for the Monochrom - if you are predominantly a B&W shooter it is a no-brainer imo. Better choice than the 240. Pair it with an M8 or M9 for the occasional color shot - or even an XVario- and you are ready to go.

[sanyasi]

I own the MM and the M(240). My go to camera is the MM and I am not an old-school film person. In fact, if I am shooting at night or in bad weather, I take the MM if I am only taking one camera. If I am taking two cameras, I find myself putting the lens I am most likely to use on the MM.

 

I am not into the zen of equipment, but here is why I think I am doing this: I find that without color as an option, I think more about shadows, light, and contrast, which results in a different type of photograph. True, with color, you can always convert, but at least for me, the mindset changes. You have nothing to fallback on. That makes a difference and the best photographs I have captured in the last nine months have mostly been with the MM.

 

As for your decision, you are basically talking about at least 9 months of use. You can always sell the MM. You are going to take a haircut, but think of it as the cost of rental. At the same time, after nine months, you might decide not to buy the M(240), although I suspect that is unlikely if you have the funds.

 

Best

 

Jack Siegel

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

What lenses do you have? There is no sense in buying a lens just because you want it. As for the Monochrom - if you are predominantly a B&W shooter it is a no-brainer imo. Better choice than the 240. Pair it with an M8 or M9 for the occasional color shot - or even an XVario- and you are ready to go.

Jaap

I only have a 21mm Lux left as I sold my 35 cron and 90mm APO.

I plan to get the Noctilux as I have googled the $%$£ out of it and according to all of those guys that have one they say its the best and shoot 95% of the time with it. When I bought the M9P I bought a 35mm cron and never used it after getting the 21mm Lux..........that was on the M9P 95% of the time and occasionally used the 90 with a Gigapa for shooting panoramas

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I own the MM and the M(240). My go to camera is the MM and I am not an old-school film person. In fact, if I am shooting at night or in bad weather, I take the MM if I am only taking one camera. If I am taking two cameras, I find myself putting the lens I am most likely to use on the MM.

 

I am not into the zen of equipment, but here is why I think I am doing this: I find that without color as an option, I think more about shadows, light, and contrast, which results in a different type of photograph. True, with color, you can always convert, but at least for me, the mindset changes. You have nothing to fallback on. That makes a difference and the best photographs I have captured in the last nine months have mostly been with the MM.

 

As for your decision, you are basically talking about at least 9 months of use. You can always sell the MM. You are going to take a haircut, but think of it as the cost of rental. At the same time, after nine months, you might decide not to buy the M(240), although I suspect that is unlikely if you have the funds.

 

Best

 

Jack Siegel

Thanks Jack for taking the time in explaining what works for you. I always fancied a MM but couldn't get the "I can get the best of both worlds out of one camera" out of my head.

You are not the first to say that the MM takes better B&W pictures than say a Silver Efex Pro conversion.

Anyway I have until September to make my mind up as I cant afford both the MM and the Noctilux until then

Thanks again

[sanyasi]

Thanks Jack for taking the time in explaining what works for you. I always fancied a MM but couldn't get the "I can get the best of both worlds out of one camera" out of my head.

You are not the first to say that the MM takes better B&W pictures than say a Silver Efex Pro conversion.

Anyway I have until September to make my mind up as I cant afford both the MM and the Noctilux until then

Thanks again

 

Thanks, although I would phrase it as "I take better pictures when I don't have the option of conversion." It is the mind set that the camera puts me in, not the camera itself. As an information point, I find that the M(240) files at higher ISOs are fairly equivalent to the MM files--I am not a quantitative tester. I operate on impressions when it comes to photography. I used to worry about ISOs over 800 with the the M9. With the M240 1600 doesn't seem problematic and 2500 can be very good. With the MM, 2500 is never an issue for me, so my impression is that the MM still has a slight edge, but the M(240) significantly closed the gap.

 

Best

 

Jack Siegel

[jaapv]

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Rethink the Noctilux. I am not convinced these super-duper modern lenses are the best companions for the Monochrom. The rendering of vintage lenses is so good and creative on this camera that they have become first choice for me. The best images I have taken were with a Canon 1.8/50 that I bought mint for 200 Euro, and I have been experimenting with a Corfield Lumax 1.9/50 from ca 1950 with very interesting results. Not to mention various vintage Leica lenses. I really hardly use my Summilux 50 asph, my favorite lens on the M9, for the Monochrom. If I want a modern look I am more prone to grab my little Elmar-M collapsible.

And the Noctilux is a big beast. Not what I am looking for in the M cameras. No matter what "all these guys" say and do. No lens is "the best" as such. It depends on the use you need it for. I take my photographs, not theirs.

[Guest borge]

I look for different things with my MM than with a color camera.

Even though I can create superb B&W conversions with a color camera, I end up taking "different" pictures with a color camera than with a B&W camera.

 

The mindset changes totally. And it's very rewarding and you learn a whole lot about it if you stay patient.

 

The big plus is the fact that the MM's files are superb, but this isn't it's main advantage. The way it changes my mindset is the most important factor.

[Guest borge]

Rethink the Noctilux. I am not convinced these super-duper modern lenses are the best companions for the Monochrom. The rendering of vintage lenses is so good and creative on this camera that they have become first choice for me. The best images I have taken were with a Canon 1.8/50 that I bought mint for 200 Euro, and I have been experimenting with a Corfield Lumax 1.9/50 from ca 1950 with very interesting results. Not to mention various vintage Leica lenses. I really hardly use my Summilux 50 asph, my favorite lens on the M9, for the Monochrom. If I want a modern look I am more prone to grab my little Elmar-M collapsible.

And the Noctilux is a big beast. Not what I am looking for in the M cameras. No matter what "all these guys" say and do. No lens is "the best" as such. It depends on the use you need it for. I take my photographs, not theirs.

 

Agreed regarding lens choice.

 

Unless you want to shoot wide open at 0.95 all day long the Noctilux might not be the right choice.

 

The Summilux ASPH will be sharper at f/1.4 and f/2 than the Noctilux.

The APO-Summicron will be a whole lot sharper at any f-stop.

They will weigh a whole lot less, and won't block your viewfinder.

 

Also, they will focus down to 0.7 meter. The Noctilux only focuses down to 1 meter. That's a big difference if you want to use the lens for close up portraits for example.

 

But if you're dead set on shooting wide-open at f0.95 all day long, and if that's your thing, then the Noctilux is the right lens for you. If not I would seriously consider the Summilux, Summicron, or any other 50mm lens.

[250swb]

I don't like the idea of buying an MM as an interim camera until the M arrives (if it ever does), you have to want to use B&W, and you have to believe it is the best camera, not a stop gap, otherwise an M9 is the answer because it does more things like the M (colour in particular). But I think ultimately the MM is likely to be a Leica legend, whereas the M will be just another camera in the chain of progression. Oh, and I just bought an MM about an hour ago.....

 

Steve

[Guest borge]

I don't like the idea of buying an MM as an interim camera until the M arrives (if it ever does), you have to want to use B&W, and you have to believe it is the best camera, not a stop gap, otherwise an M9 is the answer because it does more things like the M (colour in particular). But I think ultimately the MM is likely to be a Leica legend, whereas the M will be just another camera in the chain of progression. Oh, and I just bought an MM about an hour ago.....

 

Steve

 

Very true! I think many people bought the MM as an interim camera until they got their hands on a M240. Some of these people didn't really appreciate the MM for what it is it seems. In the end they simply purchased the wrong camera to start with and should have stayed with a M9 until they got a hold on the M240. You have to be a dedicated B&W shooter to purchase the MM.

 

If you mostly like shooting B&W then the MM is not for you. If you only shoot B&W and really love B&W and want to learn and develop your B&W skills then the MM is for you.

 

The MM is a camera that you "grow" with. This is my experience at least. The more I use it the more I learn and develop my B&W compositional and processing skills, and I've had the MM as my only camera for about 9 months now, and I don't plan on getting an M240. I have been on the waiting list for 5 months actually, but yesterday I cancelled. The reason? The MM is all that I want and need now. So there is no reason to get an M240 just for the sake of getting an M240 when I'm perfectly satisfied with what I already have.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Agreed regarding lens choice.

 

Unless you want to shoot wide open at 0.95 all day long the Noctilux might not be the right choice.

 

The Summilux ASPH will be sharper at f/1.4 and f/2 than the Noctilux.

The APO-Summicron will be a whole lot sharper at any f-stop.

They will weigh a whole lot less, and won't block your viewfinder.

 

Also, they will focus down to 0.7 meter. The Noctilux only focuses down to 1 meter. That's a big difference if you want to use the lens for close up portraits for example.

 

But if you're dead set on shooting wide-open at f0.95 all day long, and if that's your thing, then the Noctilux is the right lens for you. If not I would seriously consider the Summilux, Summicron, or any other 50mm lens.

Thanks for sharing this but I am confused, Like I said in my opening post I have googled the s%$£ out of the Noctilux and everyone who has one says that is what they shoot 95% of the time Day or Night wide open.....daytime with ND filter. The concerns of size doesn't bother me as I used to shoot with my 21 lux all the time.

Anyway I am happy to hear all these remarks as they will help me decide what will be best for me.

[jaapv]

Borge is right. One trick pony goes too far, but it is a specialist lens, certainly not an all-rounder like the Summilux asph.

 

I would never advise it as a sole 50 mm lens, it is a lens you reach for for a specific purpose.

 

As for the Apo-Summicron, a wonderful lens I am sure, but it calls for painstakingly precise technique and large (80 cm+) prints to be able to appreciate its qualities. Which are more than impressive in the right hands.

For everyday shooting it is vast overkill imo.

 

And do all those shallow-depth photographs not get to be a bit of an affectation and more than a bit boring?

[Guest borge]

Thanks for sharing this but I am confused, Like I said in my opening post I have googled the s%$£ out of the Noctilux and everyone who has one says that is what they shoot 95% of the time Day or Night wide open.....daytime with ND filter. The concerns of size doesn't bother me as I used to shoot with my 21 lux all the time.

Anyway I am happy to hear all these remarks as they will help me decide what will be best for me.

 

Well if you are confused I would dare to say that the Noctilux is not the right choice for you. In my opinion you purchase the Noctilux when you KNOW you need it for your desired use. The Summilux 50 ASPH draws much like the Noctilux does at f/1.4 and up in the apertures, and is sharper and has less CA than the Noctilux does. And it focuses closer, and is much lighter and smaller. In my opinion it's the best all-purpose 50mm lens on the market. But if you need or really want to shoot at f0.95 all the time, there is only one choice: The Noctilux. Stopped down though a Noctilux shot will look almost identical to a shot with the Summilux.

 

The Noctilux is the best lens for shooting wide open. But not the best lens on the market. If you want maximum sharpness and resolution the Noctilux is far behind the APO-Summicron 50/2 for example. The Summilux ASPH is better for landscape and detail shots as well and wide-open it has a somewhat similar style as the Noctilux does, except that there is one stop less bokeh. The Summilux'es bokeh is also smoother / less "wild", which I personally prefer.

 

Just because the Noctilux is the most expensive and biggest Leica 50mm doesn't mean that it's the best. It's the best lens for shooting wide open at f0.95 simply because it is the only lens that does that. But if you prefer shooting at f2 or f4 then it is a complete waste to purchase one.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

 

Just because the Noctilux is the most expensive and biggest Leica 50mm doesn't mean that it's the best. .

I never said that, and never meant it.

What I don't want to do like I have done many many times before is buy something else when I really wanted that and then end up with both of them as I end up buying it later anyway.

For example I went out and bought a D7000 when I really wanted a D3s but everyone kept telling me you don't need a D3s as it is for professionals and you can get great shots with the D7000 so I listened to them and bought a D7000........6 weeks later I bought a D3s WTFIWT

[tmldds]

I have had the MM for a about 5 months and have been so happy with it. Since I enjoy shooting wide-opened a lot, I considered getting a Nocti .95, but ended up buying a Nocti 1.0 because I love the crazy bokeh it produces. Since the purchase of the Nocti, it rarely leaves my MM. Even my 50 Lux asph is only used if I desire its specific modern draw and fantastic sharpness. I do not mind the weight of the Nocti. Although, it would be a perfect world if it were lighter and smaller and still shoots at f/1:D! BTW, I did sell my M9 upon ordering the new M. However, I have decided to buy another M9 for colors and do not want to pay the difference in price for another camera that I will not use very often. Good luck with your decision.

[nicks500]

I cancelled my order of my M240 when I wasnt going to get it any time soon. Instead I had the chance to get a new MM and instead of a noctilux I bought new 35mm and 50mm lux's. I dont regret it one bit. its such an intuitive camera to use and I could go on and on about how good it is but there is a lot more reviews out there that do a better job. I sometimes miss colour but that is the only minus for me

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I wonder how many other MM shooters that have the noctilux in there arsanal use it most of the time............or only on special occasions ..??

[Paul J]

Hi Neil,

 

May I suggest you go for the lenses you have, plus the Noctilux on order and search out for a mint M9-P until the M arrives?

 

Seems the best way forward for you given the M9-P is going to hold it's value well given the M shortage and lengthy delivery delays. And you will indeed, that way, get the benefit of colour and B+W if that is an issue for you?

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[Paul J]

I've never used a Noctilux on an MM but I do tend to agree that older lenses look amazing on that camera. Although the Noctilux/MM samples I have seen are pretty astonishing.

 

Also, you can count me as one of the people who think the Noctilux is the best. Best for me anyway. To me, there's nothing else like it and it's the reason I bought an M9.

 

That APO-Summicron is also really incredible though for different reasons. They are very different lenses and only you could decide which you would prefer. That one is on my list to buy also.