M3 focusing and fogging problem

[tjv]

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Hi all,

just wondering if anyone know's why my M3 may be having issues when using lenses that focus closer than 1m. It seems to work fine at longer distances then kind of seises up closer than 1m, with the focusing patch not registering or moving. I'm assuming that my camera hasn't ever been used with any lens other than it's original 50mm Elmar which has a closest focusing distance of 1m. Are there any parts in the camera that can be adjusted that may be too tight or need lubrication?

Also, I've been finding that my film is being fogged down the long edge of the frame, just off centre if I carry the camera around without a lens cap. It's definatly being fogged from the front, through the lens, as the fog is white and not orange. The shutter looks to be in good order and my local tech can't see anywhere the light may be getting in other than under the shutter, maybe reflecting off a slightly shiny surface in a cavity where there is a thin strip of felt. I'm thinking of sending it to Luton Leica for a complete service. The camera looks and feels like it's in perfect order and I'd almost bet it's had less than 100 rolls through it.

Any advise?

 

Thanks,

Tim

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[dfbldwn]

Hi all,

I'm assuming that my camera hasn't ever been used with any lens other than it's original 50mm Elmar which has a closest focusing distance of 1m.

Tim

 

I think you've figured it out already.

 

I've read (somewhere, can't find it now) that M lenses didn't focus closer than 1m when M3 was manufactured, so rangefinder is different than M6, which does allow focus to 0.7m.

[tjv]

Yeah, but I know the M3's rangefinder can work with the closer focusing lenses as my old one worked perfectly. Maybe the mechanisim is just a bit stiff?

[Runkel]

The 1m limit is normal behavior. Your earlier M3 had probably been modified. See this.

[DavidStone]

It sounds to me like this camera needs a thorough service. Do you know its history? Despite their age, these cameras, if kept in good condition, never really wear out. But if they are used with dried-out bearings and especially if they have been badly treated or inexpertly serviced in the past, a good once-over by an expert will bring them back to life. Not cheap, but the camera will definitely be grateful.

 

David

[doubice]

The M3, in its original configuration will only couple its rangefinder down to 1m, with the following exceptions:

• 35mm lenses with spectacles ("goggles") - these lenses have a differently cut focusing cam. The spectacles change the linearity of focus and have a magnification ratio of 0.7, thus allowing focus to 0.7 meter, at the same time changing the view of the 50mm frame to that of a 35mm lens. Simple mathematics: 1m x 0.7 = 70cm. 50mm x 0.7 = 35mm
  
• The other exception was the Dual Range Summicron 50mm, where the detachable accessory goggles changed the focusing range by re-aligning the focusing beam of the rangefinder at distances below 1m.

As to bending the limiting lever to allow closer focus as described on the Photo Net Thread - I have done that in the past. The only caveat is - do it gently so as not to disturb the focusing cam.

 

However, if your M3 has a light leak, your best bet is to send it to Luton and have them deal with both issues while giving the camera a propper CLA. The M3 is built like a tank and will outlast many of us, not mentioning all the digital marvels being produced today.

 

All the best,

 

Jan

[jhild]

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Hi,

 

I have bent the limiting lever on all my M3´s so can now use lenses focusing down to

0,7 m. That is very easy but should been done with great care.

The light leaks are caused by worn out felt stips. That is very easy to find out with a

small torch in a completely dark room.

Open the back of the camera,take the lens off. Test the 2nd shutterblind by shining the

torch into the camera from the front(lens)side, a small Maglite is perfect for that.If the

room is completely dark and the felt strips are worn out you will see light shining through.

Now wind on and test the 1st shutterblind in the same way.You can also try to test while

winding on.

If the felt stips are worn out they have to be replaced, there is no other way. The camera

has to be stripped down almost entirely, the rangefinder has to go out of the way.So

that is a major CLA at the same time but a M3 is well worth the money!

 

Cheers

 

Jo

[gyoung]

However, if your M3 has a light leak, your best bet is to send it to Luton and have them deal with both issues while giving the camera a propper CLA. The M3 is built like a tank and will outlast many of us, not mentioning all the digital marvels being produced today.

 

All the best,

 

Jan

 

I would not send it to Luton, send it to Malcolm Taylor, even Luton sends him things!

He did a marvellous overhaul on my M3 a few years ago, and on my III last year.

 

Gerry Young

[robsteve]

Yeah, but I know the M3's rangefinder can work with the closer focusing lenses as my old one worked perfectly. Maybe the mechanisim is just a bit stiff?

 

Some M3 rangefinders can be adjusted to focus down to .7m, others cannot. Only by getting it serviced will the technician be able to tell you if it can be done with yours.

[tjv]

Man, this is real news to me! I had no idea the M3 was only really built for 1m focus and above, especially since I used an M3 flawlessly with all my lenses for over three years until selling my original body six months ago!

This is of real concern for me. I've been trying to get hold of Luton regarding the CLA etc but they take ages to reply to emails. I had a friend of mine in the UK call them and they were very helpful. I'm just concerned about how long the repair will take as their website said they are not accepting new repairs until JULY!

I have only one option here in New Zealand but I don't fancy my chances with them.

Tim

[luigi bertolotti]

I had the same problem of "white shadows" along the horizontal frame on my M4: as has been already pointed, it's definitely a problem of felt stips: I waited to decide for CLA, for the problem emerged sometimes only (strong light in certain positions), but then replaced them: not too costly, problem disappeared, M4 as new.

The fociusing issue has already been deeply and very correctly explained.

Get the camera well repaired, wait the time it needs... is always worthy for a M3...

[tjv]

Does anyone know above what serial number M3's are able to be adjusted for close focus?

This is an almost mint M3. It is obviously not mint seeing as it is leeking light! The focus issue seems now to be a normal one, all be it annoying. I'd never heard of this before.

Tim

[doubice]

Tim,

 

here is some text pertaining to the complexity of adjusting an M3 for closer focus. I don't recall where on the web I found it, but it is an interesting read:

 

EXTENDING THE RANGE OF EARLIER M3 RANGEFINDERS:

 

Not all M3 cameras can be adjusted to focus down to 0.7 meter. The early M3's just go to 1 meter. There is, on later M3's that only focus to 1 meter, an extra lever in the throat of the camera that stops the roller arm coming out further. This can sometimes be straightened slightly so that the roller arm comes out further allowing focusing below 1 metre.

 

The reason that Leitz did this was because below 1 meter the rangefinder and parallax correction was not as accurate. Some of the early M3's did not have this extra 'stop' and, whatever you read on the Internet about extending the range, this is not true for all M3 ‘s. There were 3 different rangefinders for the first design (double stroke) M3, and the problem with extending the range is that the moving objective (the lens that moves when you focus the camera) hits the inside of the top-plate before it reaches 0.7 meter.

 

There is a possibility with some M3's that the prisms can be removed and reset in a different position so that the lens will be able to focus below 1 meter, but this requires that the rangefinder is heated to 200 degrees C to soften the cement and then loosen the prisms/beam-splitter so that it can be repositioned to extend the range. If you check your camera, and look in the throat where the rangefinder roller arm is attached you may see a small lever that acts as a stop and hits the centre eccentric screw post. You will see that this is bent slightly. If you are very careful, you may be able to bend this lever so that it is a little straighter and thus allow the roller to come further out.

 

You would have to be very careful, and use a long nosed pair of good quality pliers. Do not attempt to unscrew the roller arm because the span of the rangefinder is adjustable on an eccentric cam and unscrewing this will upset the calibration. Straightening the stop lever may give you a little more on the focus scale below 1 meter but it normally will not focus all the way down to 0.7. If there isn't a stop lever (which is normal for early M3’s) then the only way to extend the rangefinder is to reposition the internal beam-splitter optics, which entails removing the rangefinder and heating the optics up to remove and reposition them. This is not a small job.

 

The difference between these two M3 double stroke cameras is about 38,000 units .The one on the right is 748 xxx and the left is 786 xxx .

 

All the best,

 

Jan

[robsteve]

Man, this is real news to me! I had no idea the M3 was only really built for 1m focus and above, especially since I used an M3 flawlessly with all my lenses for over three years until selling my original body six months ago!

This is of real concern for me. I've been trying to get hold of Luton regarding the CLA etc but they take ages to reply to emails. I had a friend of mine in the UK call them and they were very helpful. I'm just concerned about how long the repair will take as their website said they are not accepting new repairs until JULY!

I have only one option here in New Zealand but I don't fancy my chances with them.

Tim

 

Tim:

 

If you are going to ship it out of country, try Kindemann Canada. They have done numerous M3 for me. A few years back a CLA was $250.

 

Kindermann Canada