Pro lab Noritsu scans vs Epson V700 - dilemma!

[63strat]

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I've got a dilemma. I can get very sharp hi-rez scans from 35mm film on my Epson V700, but the shadow detail, dynamic range, and color are not as good as the pro lab Noritsu scans. And I'm guessing the Dmax of the Epson is not even close to that of the Noritsu. The problem, however, with the pro lab scans in and around Los Angeles is that, while I'm asking for their hi-rez option, upon magnification the images are full of jagged-edge pixelization.

 

Take these two paragraphs from the pro lab, TheDarkroom.com, for one such example:

 

Our enhanced scan is a 2048x3072 pixel scan. This equals 18.1 MB when opened in an image editing program like PhotoShop. These scans come as jpegs so they will look small in the file browser, but will "puff" up when opened. Depending on your subject matter some images will compress more than others. This scan is perfect for prints up to 12x18. It's just 5 bucks extra for these scans.

 

Our standard scan and enhanced scan are 72 dpi. Sounds low - it's not-here's why. It's the pixel dimensions that count, not dpi. If you get your scans and are still concerned, convert them to 300dpi in PhotoShop. Make sure you uncheck the "Resample Image" checkbox. You'll see the image stays the same.

 

Now I'm scanning with my Epson at 48 bit/2400 DPI and everything is very smooth. I think the lab's 72 DPI settings are creating the jagged-edge pixelization. I can't, however, get any of these labs to scan at 2400 DPI (or even 600 for that matter), if I could, I think I'd be satisfied.

 

At the same time though, I would prefer to do the scanning myself, but I don't think I can get close enough in quality with my V700. I may need to switch to a different scanner. (My camera is an MP.)

 

Any advice welcome, thanks.

[250swb]

You don't say what you have already done to solve the DR/shadow/colour problem with your V700 so I'll suggest a few things you may have already got covered just to check.

 

The first thing is to make sure that what you are aiming for isn't the final image. You want to aim for a fairly flat scan that has all the information possible, which can then be manipulated in Photoshop or Lightroom. So after your preview scan ensure you are not clipping the shadows or highlights by looking at the histogram and moving the sliders. The black slider can be set so it is just outside the histogram, the white slider just inside the characteristic curve at the highlight end. Your picture will now look horrible, flat, uninspiring. Which is good. Don't use any sharpening. Scan at the resolution you want. Then import to your Photoshop or Lightroom and adjust the contrast of the image manually, although sometimes even pressing 'Auto' gets you into the ballpark quickly. If you have scanned colour it will also boost the colour, but you may still need to tweak colour balance.

 

This procedure may overcome the problem you may be having with Epson Scan software, in which the low resolution preview scan is used by the software to base it's main scan settings, so if it clips blacks it may be doing it simply because it isn't basing it on having enough pixel information in the preview. So you have to adjust it for the high resolution scan each time as mentioned above.

 

An alternative is to use Vuescan software instead. Some aspects of it are mad and annoying, but as you are still aiming for a flat scan the ability to put figures in for shadow and highlight clipping, and set the size of the preview resolution, it often works out better, particularly if you are scanning a few images and you want consistency. So for instance in Vuescan you'd simply put 0% into each of the black and white clipping points and it wouldn't clip or try to second guess you with its 'ideas'.

 

In terms of workflow you would use the Epson Scan software for the digital contact sheet, then choose the image or images from the roll that you want to take further and scan those with Vuescan.

 

Steve

[63strat]

Thanks Steve. I'm gathering from reading your answer that I'm making another mistake -- I've been batch scanning about 12 slides at once after the preview scan in the Epson Scan software. Doing this, I'm not able to individually adjust the histograms before scanning.

 

I'll give your advice a try. I guess there's a lot more I could do in working with the scanner beyond reading the manual.

 

I prefer working in Epson Scan for it's ease of use in managing scanning, but I can certainly try Viewscan again. Thank you.

[250swb]

Yes I think that may be the problem. Batch scanning is OK for digital contact sheets because you know it isn't going to be the final image, you are just doing it to see if things are in focus etc. When I do it I even have sharpening 'on' and scan them at 800dpi. It is good enough in most cases. But when you pick out individual images you should treat them as individuals to get the most out of each scan, so look at the histogram and use the sliders. Also save your full scan as a TIFF so you don't later run into compression artifacts.

 

Keep sharpening 'off', you can do that later, but a full res scan of a 35mm neg will need a lot more sharpening than a digital file.. So don't worry about ramping it right up well beyond your normal expectations, but the important thing is to do it in the more sophisticated software of Lightroom etc, not Epson Scan. It is the final act, but after you adjusted the contrast sharpening adds the final punch to the image, so it is a case of managing expectations all through the workflow with the knowledge that it should all come out right in the end.

 

Steve

[63strat]

Thanks Steve. Getting closer to getting better results with your advice. The reason to move the white slider inside the curve is to not waste scanning nothingness, no values in that area as seen by the preview scan, is this correct?

[250swb]

Yes but I'm not saying never, it is just a good starting point and adds a little bit extra contrast so it doesn't look completely flat. If you feel it is clipping some actual pixels take it to the very edge of the histogram curve like the black. Use the middle slider for adjusting brightness but don't bunch it up too close the black slider.

 

Steve

[peterbengtson]

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DPI has no meaning in a digital image. the 72 DPI figure dates back to the earliest Apple computer which had a screen dimension where 1 pixel = about 1 point of font size. I would be very wary of any person or organization the still quotes this as a meaningful number. 2 good explanations in these links.

 

Say No to 72 dpi

 

72DPI, how we found our name and what it means

 

In a digital image only pay attention to the pixel count not the DPI.

[63strat]

I agree. This lab, The Darkroom.com, is used by one of the photo stores here in LA for processing. Their 72 DPI statement is total BS.

[dritz]

Thanks Steve. I'm gathering from reading your answer that I'm making another mistake -- I've been batch scanning about 12 slides at once after the preview scan in the Epson Scan software. Doing this, I'm not able to individually adjust the histograms before scanning.

 

I'll give your advice a try. I guess there's a lot more I could do in working with the scanner beyond reading the manual.

 

I prefer working in Epson Scan for it's ease of use in managing scanning, but I can certainly try Viewscan again. Thank you.

 

Actually, you are able to adjust the historgram on individual files. You just have to select each image and make the adjustment, then move on to the next picture. The general advice given to you is wise: batch scan for your contact sheet, then custom scan when you really want to get the best possible scan.