chrism Posted July 8, 2017 Share #35721 Posted July 8, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Agree with you both. Having sold my LPL 7200 and dismantled my darkroom years ago, since 'coming back' to film in 2010 I have been dependent on the hybrid approach. After post-processing the scanned file in LR, if I want to make a print I just send the file to my Pixma Pro 100. I really, really do not miss spending hours in the darkroom making test strips etc etc and then spending more time 'spotting' the print! For hard to define reasons film photography generally gives me more pleasure than my digital cameras - but on the other hand there are many situations where to use my M240 or Q or even my iPhone makes more sense. 'Horses for courses', as they say! I can justify darkroom work to myself as an end in itself: the demonstration of arcane skills (such as I have of them) and the satisfaction of achieving a result by hard work that I could have arrived at with trivial effort or skill after scanning, processing and digitally printing the same negative. It could never be the only way, or even the main way, for me to see my photographs; it's simply an entertaining alternative to amuse me as an amateur photographer.* But I struggle with why I use film to take those photographs. I don't think film is better—whatever that might mean in terms of resolution, contrast, dynamic range, colour fidelity etc, but it is more authentic, at least, to me. That's because I grew up with film, and doing it in such an easy way as modern digital offers really feels like cheating to someone with that background. Digital is easier, and probably often technically better. So the question remains as to what I am doing and why? If the final image is everything, then I ought to be using digital to get perfectly exposed high-resolution pictures very easily. Oh, I remind myself about all the fantastic cameras that I can use that are now relatively cheap, and it's true that I revel in using them—there's nothing like the satisfaction of a Rolleiflex, Hasselblad 500, Leica M2 or even any example from the pinnacle of the manual SLR era. But what of the process? A lot of satisfaction comes from doing something difficult correctly (the downside being those moments like yesterday when I developed four rolls of 35mm in one tank, but only had two Hewes reels, and the effing-awful bent Taiwanese reels destroyed several negatives by letting adjacent film surfaces touch—perhaps I ought to include that in the pleasure of film as there is only satisfaction in avoiding mistakes, and if no mistakes were possible then no satisfaction could be attained). That process includes not only manual camera abilities, but an awareness of the characteristics of films, developers, chemical knowledge, darkroom skills—lots of things way beyond the shutter button! I could have used a digital camera instead, and probably got photos that were technically better, but I would have taken no pleasure in it. Too easy! I think I'm doing what I do partly because of the lovely old cameras, partly to avoid the guilty feeling of cheating, and consequently accepting lower image quality a lot of the time in return. This is the thing I struggle with—if the final image is all, and the art of photography lies in seeing a good photograph before you pick up the camera then it doesn't matter how it was taken. But I still have the feeling that anyone could have made the right menu settings and relied upon a digital camera's brain to ensure it came out right. So I have to be talking about something else here, the satisfaction of achieving something by doing in a way that is not easy, and whether that satisfaction outweighs the results being technically less perfect. That's probably the issue—I'm trying to satisfy two different drives—to make a satisfying image (the result, which is agnostic about how it was made and digital is easier), and to enjoy the craft of photography (the process, where analog allows for more deployment of skill and thus more satisfaction). If I had a Dionysian mindset, I'd do what felt good at the time, and use all cameras with complete equanimity, but being cursed with an Apollonian mind, I have to bloody well feel like I'm doing, and using, the best I can. It's a curse, and it is only difficult and destructive because I can't separate the pleasure in a good result from the pleasure of navigating a tricky process. You might think it is easy, when stuck in this kind of endless loop, to look down upon digital users as those who take the easy way, who have a few integrated circuits doing what can be done in wetware with enough practice and effort, but I think I envy anyone who uses a digital camera with a clear conscience. Plainly, this is all psychopathology on my part, and ought not to influence anyone else unduly. Chris *contrast this calm acceptance of the ease of digitally scanning, adjusting and printing my negatives with my reluctance to let that digitisation move a step closer to the start of the process. Weird. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 8, 2017 Posted July 8, 2017 Hi chrism, Take a look here I like film...(open thread). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Doc Henry Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share #35722 Posted July 8, 2017 More Fortress Louisbourg: Fortress Louisbourg 4 by chrism229, on Flickr Fortress Louisbourg 5 by chrism229, on Flickr Fortress Louisbourg 6 by chrism229, on Flickr Chris , definition, contrast and black-grey tones are beautiful Great series Thank you for posting Henry 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share #35723 Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) Chris, I agree Finally it is a question of appreciation and pleasure If you want to make it easy right away digital (M10, Huawei, D800, Canon ...)But if you want the artistic side , the warm side, the natural side etc ... film and print on silver paper the best way To each his choice ! In any case the impression in the darkroom is a "calming" and a moment when I am alone in the night and it is restful , believe me ! ... instead of receiving electromagnetic waves from the computer and printer software Henry Edited July 8, 2017 by Doc Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted July 8, 2017 Share #35724 Posted July 8, 2017 Print in darkroom is the best moment for me , to finally see my work from the beginning ie shoot with my camera untill print on paper In addition, you can enlarge what we like , without any problem and a picture in postcard format is different from a photo in 30x40 The quality of the image on the paper has no equivalent , by the "softness" of the image in the artsitic sense of the term and the vintage side Who agrees with me ? Henry Me. I think people should do what they want, presumably with the goal of producing a photograph that engages the viewer. Personally, I am most satisfied by showing and sharing the best print I can do. That means a silver print from my darkroom, or a carefully printed (Photoshop Elements+Silver Efex Pro) image for the screen. Photography, as I like to do it, takes work and thought, like most things worthwhile. I have an approach and system that works very well - and I stick with it and will do so until I find something that can reliably and genuinely (no hot air bullshit) provide an improvement. I am waiting and watching. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share #35725 Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) Michael , "I am waiting and watching". ... people are now in a hurry all the time, always in the hurry ! Best henry Edited July 8, 2017 by Doc Henry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted July 8, 2017 Share #35726 Posted July 8, 2017 Me. I think people should do what they want, presumably with the goal of producing a photograph that engages the viewer. Personally, I am most satisfied by showing and sharing the best print I can do. That means a silver print from my darkroom, or a carefully printed (Photoshop Elements+Silver Efex Pro) image for the screen. Photography, as I like to do it, takes work and thought, like most things worthwhile. I have an approach and system that works very well - and I stick with it and will do so until I find something that can reliably and genuinely (no hot air bullshit) provide an improvement. I am waiting and watching. Talking of the Nik collection inherited by Google, I hadn't seen it mentioned here, but Google have announced they will not be updating this collection of filters any further. So anyone using them ought to start looking for replacements as one day an OS upgrade will stop them working. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted July 8, 2017 Share #35727 Posted July 8, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Talking of the Nik collection inherited by Google, I hadn't seen it mentioned here, but Google have announced they will not be updating this collection of filters any further. So anyone using them ought to start looking for replacements as one day an OS upgrade will stop them working. When I first heard about this, my reaction was of hope that we might finally be saved from structure and detail extractor monsters. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted July 8, 2017 Share #35728 Posted July 8, 2017 image433124 by Keith Finney, on Flickr M3, 50mm Summicron DR, Tmax 400 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share #35729 Posted July 8, 2017 image433124 by Keith Finney, on Flickr M3, 50mm Summicron DR, Tmax 400 Black and grey tone are very nice Wayne Yes it's TMAX Thank you Henry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share #35730 Posted July 8, 2017 Talking of the Nik collection inherited by Google, I hadn't seen it mentioned here, but Google have announced they will not be updating this collection of filters any further. So anyone using them ought to start looking for replacements as one day an OS upgrade will stop them working. Anyway the day we change OS , we will have to change everything and this makes the joy and happiness (financial happiness) of suppliers and sellers and the cycle begins again It is not beautiful the life ? Henry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
christoph_d Posted July 8, 2017 Share #35731 Posted July 8, 2017 Just as a short in-between. At the galerie photo cinema de l'Institute Lumière in Lyon (3, rue de l'Arbre Sec), is until July 23rd an exhibition of portraits of Leonard Cohen by Claude Gassian to see. All pictures date from between 1976 to 1994, so are taken on film? If you are in Lyon, definately worth a visit. Rgds C. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemgb Posted July 8, 2017 Share #35732 Posted July 8, 2017 Print in darkroom is the best moment for me , to finally see my work from the beginning ie shoot with my camera untill print on paper In addition, you can enlarge what we like , without any problem and a picture in postcard format is different from a photo in 30x40 The quality of the image on the paper has no equivalent , by the "softness" of the image in the artsitic sense of the term and the vintage side Who agrees with me ? Henry I agree, but presently I have no time for a darkroom, in a few years though, I plan to build one again. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share #35733 Posted July 8, 2017 Kodak Ektar 100 (dev in tetenal 38°C) Leica M7 Summilux 35 Asph Tam Ky at sunset VN 2016 Image15tamkykp16m7lfht++++1000.jpg As I said above to Mathias, except the "digital" side when you scan , if not I cannot post my photo here , I have not corrected In comparison, the M9 gives a different image with different clarity ,more clear and different colors. But the film shot is the exact reproduction of that moment for the color and general appearance I have also this landscape in b&w Kodak taken with my MP Best Henry To keep the purity , the original and the "natural" reproduction by film, I prefer not convert color to b&w. It's another picture in black and white this time , taken at the same time. Black is nicer and homogeneous ! Tam Ky at sunset 2016 Leica MP-Summilux 50 Asph-Kodak TMAX100 (dev in pure Kodak D76) Tiff from Scanner Nikon Coolscan 5000 > Jpeg for posting , sorry for the digital step Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Rg Henry 9 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Rg Henry ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?do=findComment&comment=3311189'>More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share #35734 Posted July 8, 2017 I agree, but presently I have no time for a darkroom, in a few years though, I plan to build one again. Mike "yes you can" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwolf Posted July 8, 2017 Share #35735 Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) Another in my Return to Film adventure. My daughter. So much to learn, but this is getting closer to the look I'm hoping for from Tri-X and HC-110. This time much longer development time and much less agitation. John M6 | ZM Planar 50 Edited July 8, 2017 by johnwolf 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share #35736 Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) Kodak Ektar 100 (dev in tetenal 38°C) Leica M7 Summilux 35 Asph Tam Ky at sunset VN 2016 Image15tamkykp16m7lfht++++1000.jpg As I said above to Mathias, except the "digital" side when you scan , if not I cannot post my photo here , I have not corrected In comparison, the M9 gives a different image with different clarity ,more clear and different colors. But the film shot is the exact reproduction of that moment for the color and general appearance I have also this landscape in b&w Kodak taken with my MP Best Henry Now in digital , apologies for the post but just for the comparison ! At first glance,the picture is beautiful I agree , but the most important , color is it faithful ? That's the good question isn't ! Sky, trees, grass, water .... all is different in color ! ... except color of mountain in background and may be trees a little similar Leica M9 (CCD sensor of Kodak) DNG > direct in Jpeg for post (no correction) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Best Henry Edited July 8, 2017 by Doc Henry 7 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Best Henry ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?do=findComment&comment=3311198'>More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share #35737 Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) Another in my Return to Film adventure. My daughter. So much to learn, but this is getting closer to the look I'm hoping for from Tri-X and HC-110. This time much longer development time and much less agitation. John M6 | ZM Planar 50 John , it's a superb and lovely portrait . Well done The skin of the face is like real ! If you have more like this, I am with you Thanks and welcome , glad you join us Best Henry Edited July 8, 2017 by Doc Henry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted July 8, 2017 Share #35738 Posted July 8, 2017 Anyway the day we change OS , we will have to change everything and this makes the joy and happiness (financial happiness) of suppliers and sellers and the cycle begins again It is not beautiful the life ? Henry I think it means that with some future (possibly minor) upgrade, Google will not be updating this collection. I have them (I paid for them when they were sold by Nik) but I no longer use them. They had some small point for digital images, but don't do anything for film scans that I can't do myself in LR and PS. The less you do to alter a film scan the better it looks! Et oui, la vie est belle, mais pas à cause des logiciels... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted July 8, 2017 Author Share #35739 Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) Yes Chris I also bought Silver Effex (120 Euros) to convert color in b&w , when I use the M8 and M9 In film , it's better as you said , go directly to post ... or better print Henry Edited July 8, 2017 by Doc Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted July 8, 2017 Share #35740 Posted July 8, 2017 OM2n, Superia 400, X1 scans: Stockade by chrism229, on Flickr After his posting to Louisbourg, this fellow became chief administrator for New France in Québec, and ended up on trial for pilfering six million livres. Maison Bigot by chrism229, on Flickr While three soldiers slept in each of these bunks: Soldiers bunks by chrism229, on Flickr 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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