Doc Henry Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share #7881 Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I agree, Mark The portras are wonderful but I also find them falling a little short of delivering punchy colors and resolution that takes the scene that we see to a different level I do, though, find that the ektar is more finicky when it comes to exposure. Unlike the portras, which often work well slightly overexposed, with the ektar the aim should always to expose exactly correct. I typically will use my Minolta spot meter F to take an average exposure of a given scene. I will then check to see where that average exposure has given me zone 5 and confirm that is where I want it. I will then check to see which zone the average reading has given the brightest parts of the scene Then I'll do the same for the darkest part/deepest shadows. If the darkest zone is below 3 and/or the brightest zone is above 8 I will typically look to make compromizing adjustments so that the important subjects in th scene are most properly exposed. All this bullshit just in an effort to satisfy ektar's rigid exposure requirements. I also find that ektar doesn't perform optimally in high contrast situations, and performs better with scenes containing good natural ambient light. Just my two cents after blowing through thousands of dollars in ektar over the past six months. Good thing it is about 25% cheaper than the portras here in nyc Adam, which is wonderful in the film is that "each film is a new sensor" as said a famous photographer (and no need to buy a new expensive digital Leica camera) For film, if you like a bit "saturated" color and "fine" grain , you can choose Ektar, but for "sharpness" and "clarity" , go to Portra .... but with "low contrast" Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! For color, I like much Portra * because it is closer to what I see in reality, I say "closer" because only our eye has the chance to see the "real" color or b&w transposition in our brain and mind Fuji is for flower specially green color IMHO For b&w , my preference is Kodak TX with "real and deep black" , "nice nuance of grey" but also HP5 or other Ilford films , without forgetting Fuji Acros 100.... and other film brand You said "each film is a new sensor" ? Adam , in France Ektar is also cheaper than Portra ! Best Henry * and M9 color CCD sensor with "vivid" color , as said E. Puts. Edited November 15, 2015 by Doc Henry 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! For color, I like much Portra * because it is closer to what I see in reality, I say "closer" because only our eye has the chance to see the "real" color or b&w transposition in our brain and mind Fuji is for flower specially green color IMHO For b&w , my preference is Kodak TX with "real and deep black" , "nice nuance of grey" but also HP5 or other Ilford films , without forgetting Fuji Acros 100.... and other film brand You said "each film is a new sensor" ? Adam , in France Ektar is also cheaper than Portra ! Best Henry * and M9 color CCD sensor with "vivid" color , as said E. Puts. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?do=findComment&comment=2928751'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 Hi Doc Henry, Take a look here I like film...(open thread). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
MarkP Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7882 Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) I agree, Mark The portras are wonderful but I also find them falling a little short of delivering punchy colors and resolution that takes the scene that we see to a different level I do, though, find that the ektar is more finicky when it comes to exposure. Unlike the portras, which often work well slightly overexposed, with the ektar the aim should always to expose exactly correct. I typically will use my Minolta spot meter F to take an average exposure of a given scene. I will then check to see where that average exposure has given me zone 5 and confirm that is where I want it. I will then check to see which zone the average reading has given the brightest parts of the scene Then I'll do the same for the darkest part/deepest shadows. If the darkest zone is below 3 and/or the brightest zone is above 8 I will typically look to make compromizing adjustments so that the important subjects in th scene are most properly exposed. All this bullshit just in an effort to satisfy ektar's rigid exposure requirements. I also find that ektar doesn't perform optimally in high contrast situations, and performs better with scenes containing good natural ambient light. Just my two cents after blowing through thousands of dollars in ektar over the past six months. Good thing it is about 25% cheaper than the portras here in nyc I agree exposure needs to be just right to get the most out of Ektar (like in the days of slide film - I miss slide film). You're obsessive. I'd probably go to that amount of trouble with a spot meter for MF or LF, but not for 35mm/FF. I just scan around the scene using my camera's internal light meter to see the exposure range, and then mentally calculate the settings. Where the lighting is more challenging or the photograph particularly important I just bracket . Edited November 15, 2015 by MarkP 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share #7883 Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) The yellow is superb in Kodak Portra IMO Kodak Portra 160 (dev home Tetenal C41 : 30°C - 5mns) M7- 90 Macro-Elmar- Macro-adapter-Tripod and magnifier + a little patience because of wind weather a little cloudy with a bit of blue sky from time to time near the edge of our river Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Best Henry Edited November 15, 2015 by Doc Henry 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Best Henry ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?do=findComment&comment=2928777'>More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share #7884 Posted November 15, 2015 ... and the black and grey nuances of Kodak TX400 Have you seen poppy like that ? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Kodak TX400 (dev home D76) MP - 90 Macro Elmar + Macroadapter + tripod (uncropped) Best Henry 5 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Kodak TX400 (dev home D76) MP - 90 Macro Elmar + Macroadapter + tripod (uncropped) Best Henry ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?do=findComment&comment=2928792'>More sharing options...
MarkP Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7885 Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Ocean Pool, Clovelly Beach, Sydney M7, Portra 400 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited November 15, 2015 by MarkP 5 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?do=findComment&comment=2928805'>More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share #7886 Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Ocean Pool, Closely Beach, Sydney M7, Portra 400 0299.13.jpg Wow , superb blue color , really Variation on the theme of blue Thanks for sharing Mark ... glad you do not take it badly that I said Best regards Henry Edited November 15, 2015 by Doc Henry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share #7887 Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) .... and for illustration of what i said , a last picture with Kodak Portra 400 M7- 35 Summilux Asph Kodak Portra 400 (dev Tetenal 30°C) no correction Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Best Henry Edited November 15, 2015 by Doc Henry 5 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Best Henry ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?do=findComment&comment=2928821'>More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share #7888 Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) ... and the "red" (outside of "green") of Fuji, it's not bad too Poppy in macrophotography about thickness, no "cigarette paper" of the petal Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M7-90 MacroElamr-MacroAdapter-Tripod Best Henry Edited November 15, 2015 by Doc Henry 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! M7-90 MacroElamr-MacroAdapter-Tripod Best Henry ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?do=findComment&comment=2928826'>More sharing options...
MarkP Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7889 Posted November 15, 2015 Variation on the theme of blue Variation on the theme of Sydney beach ocean pools. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7890 Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Ocean Pool, Palm Beach, Sydney M7, Portra 400, MATE Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited November 15, 2015 by MarkP 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?do=findComment&comment=2928840'>More sharing options...
Sparkassenkunde Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7891 Posted November 15, 2015 Mythical beings with birds, in Columbus Circle, NYC A mixture of direct sun light and reflected rays from nearby glass structures. Ilford film, Summaron 35 f/2.8 James Very interesting capture with your perfect timing for the lights and the birds as if composed for the purpose of your picture 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7892 Posted November 15, 2015 You're obsessive. I'd probably go to that amount of trouble with a spot meter for MF or LF, but not for 35mm/FF. I just scan around the scene using my camera's internal light meter to see the exposure range, and then mentally calculate the settings. Where the lighting is more challenging or the photograph particularly important I just bracket . To clarify, I of course was only describing my exposure reading workflow in the context of my MF photography. Not 35mm. I am not "obsessive" about this with 35mm film as I do not like the feeling of my head being banged against the wall repeatedly If all LF (and many MF landscape film photographers) didn't follow procedure similar to the one that I outlined (or even more elaborate), I'd be shocked. And it only takes a few seconds once you get the hang. I really only brought it up in the context of getting the most out of Ektar's wonderfully balanced saturation qualities. For example, if you are shooting a sunrise or sunset and trying to capture the brilliant pastel (as opposed to a primary-type color) colors in the sky, the EV in the sky better not be higher than zone 8 (and in some cases 7 or even 6) or else the Ektar won't sing for you. This is probably true of portra as well, but then again you aren't shooting portra to give you brilliant saturation. You in-camera spot meter probably works just fine, particularly if you don't mind bracketing. But it aint as precise as a 1 degree spot meter, which is really needed in order to hone in precisely on those darkest and brightest EVs in a vast scene (for averaging purposes), which is really most important with the larger size film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7893 Posted November 15, 2015 For color, I like much Portra * because it is closer to what I see in reality, I say "closer" because only our eye has the chance to see the "real" color or b&w transposition in our brain and mind Henry - I differ on this. Portra often has its own surreal rendition, only in a different way (e.g., it tends to enhance pastel colors and make earth tones more subdued and classic-looking - all wonderful from my perspective, don't get me wrong!). I don't think it is necessarily the case that our eyes always see the real colors in a scene, as our brain filters out a lot of the kelvin temperature imbalances that exist. For example, on a overcast day, our eyes will not necessarily see the actual level of blue gases in the atmosphere (it may pick up on some, but our brain filters a lot out). Hence the phenomenon that we all experience when our photos come out too cool, especially in the clouds and with greens (getting foliage that is not real green but bluish green) and to some extent shadows. In many cases, this isn't the particular film that is doing this but the fact that true WB in the atmosphere was in fact much cool than we saw at the time. When I am viewing a scene and say to myself, "wow, look at that beautiful sky, the beautiful reflections in the water, or those beautiful fall leaves," I want to capture that emotionally charged vision. If well exposed, Ektar will do this. Portra might do this if the color palette is right (such as a beach scene as one of many examples). But it often falls short of this, IMO. I guess this is why Kodak made Ektar for landscapes and similar scenes! I also have a different view as to what I want my images to look like. I don't necessarily want my image to come out exactly how I saw it. Just like a painter doesn't aim for this when canvasing a landscape. It is art, after all. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwolffensperger Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7894 Posted November 15, 2015 Adam, do you have any tips for an easy reading into the zone system? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7895 Posted November 15, 2015 Adam, do you have any tips for an easy reading into the zone system? YES! Buy a copy of The Negative by Ansel Adams. Put it on your toilet and in a couple of months you will be your own expert! I guarantee it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwolffensperger Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7896 Posted November 15, 2015 Haha, learning from the master, sounds good! Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7897 Posted November 15, 2015 Haha, learning from the master, sounds good! Thanks! yes, he truly was and still is the master. Brilliant in every way and had the good sense to memorialize his knowledge in plain English. I just wish I could find an analog that expands on the principle in the book to color film photography. The zone system was built on the principles of EVs for B&W photography. This doesn't necessarily translate directly to color photography, as the tones in a color scene are not just black or white, but contain an infinite array of colors and kelvin temperatures, which play into the zone system a little differently. A straightforward application of the zone system is still very effective, and in most cases sufficient. But I think that there is more that can be dug into this in order to design one's overall exposure with more complete accuracy and reliability., Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7898 Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Henry - I differ on this. Portra often has its own surreal rendition, only in a different way (e.g., it tends to enhance pastel colors and make earth tones more subdued and classic-looking - all wonderful from my perspective, don't get me wrong!). I don't think it is necessarily the case that our eyes always see the real colors in a scene, as our brain filters out a lot of the kelvin temperature imbalances that exist. For example, on a overcast day, our eyes will not necessarily see the actual level of blue gases in the atmosphere (it may pick up on some, but our brain filters a lot out). Hence the phenomenon that we all experience when our photos come out too cool, especially in the clouds and with greens (getting foliage that is not real green but bluish green) and to some extent shadows. In many cases, this isn't the particular film that is doing this but the fact that true WB in the atmosphere was in fact much cool than we saw at the time. When I am viewing a scene and say to myself, "wow, look at that beautiful sky, the beautiful reflections in the water, or those beautiful fall leaves," I want to capture that emotionally charged vision. If well exposed, Ektar will do this. Portra might do this if the color palette is right (such as a beach scene as one of many examples). But it often falls short of this, IMO. I guess this is why Kodak made Ektar for landscapes and similar scenes! I also have a different view as to what I want my images to look like. I don't necessarily want my image to come out exactly how I saw it. Just like a painter doesn't aim for this when canvasing a landscape. It is art, after all. Henry - Illustration for you regarding the relative rendering for Ektar and Portra 160. Here are two throw-away shots that will never see the light of day (although I may go back at some point and retake the second shot but this time pay due respect to the top of the bridge ). Essentially the same scene but at different points of the day, although similar degrees of beautiful lighting. Despite the differences in overall lightening, I think these shots are a fair representation of the relative renditions of the two films. Which is Ektar and which is Portra 160? To me, both are lovely. But I like the Ektar First shot Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited November 15, 2015 by A miller 5 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?do=findComment&comment=2928954'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7899 Posted November 15, 2015 second... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/?do=findComment&comment=2928956'>More sharing options...
Trev Posted November 15, 2015 Share #7900 Posted November 15, 2015 Kod.TX (deep black) MP 35 La at 3000m french Alpes Img3MtBKplfht+++900pf.jpg Best Henry Stunning picture. Wonderful view. Perfect blacks and crisp whites. Could so easily be a movie poster. Love it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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