dant Posted May 30, 2013 Share #1 Â Posted May 30, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) For me if Leica got rid of the trad split image rangefinder and used a EVF...that would be a big one. Â If Leica got rid of the shutter speed dial on top and used a wheel like a dslr. Â If Leica made the cam as complex as the Fuji X-Pro. Â If they raise their prices much more. Â What about you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 30, 2013 Share #2 Â Posted May 30, 2013 Price. It's why I can no longer buy anything new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted May 30, 2013 Share #3  Posted May 30, 2013 For me if Leica got rid of the trad split image rangefinder and used a EVF...that would be a big one. If Leica got rid of the shutter speed dial on top and used a wheel like a dslr.  If Leica made the cam as complex as the Fuji X-Pro.  If they raise their prices much more.  What about you?  Sorry, but the coincident optical rangefinder and traditional control set are why most of us use Leicas. If you want wheels, menus, and EVFs then buy a Fuji, OM-D, NEX or any one of the other million mirrorless cameras out there. There's lots of choices.  I switched back to Leica from Olympus DSLRs and after trying the Fuji XPro-1 (despite the cost) because I absolutely detest having to wrest control of a camera away from its programming. Focus-by-wire does nothing for me as there's little tactile feedback, and I detest EVFs.  The deal breaker for me is when they abandon the coincident rangefinder. I haven't seen an EVF yet that I can work with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted May 30, 2013 Share #4 Â Posted May 30, 2013 With my old tired eyes, I don't think the OVF is a deal breaker for me. I may be in the minority on that, especially on this forum. Don't get me wrong. I happen to like the current OVF and that is why I continue to use Leicas. And I got rid of a Nex7 because I though the EVF was just okay and the camera controls hopelessly complicated. Â But I think the EVF technology will evolve and improve (it already has), and at some point if Leica advances the technology (or adopts somebody elses's advanced technology), I would still consider that. I am also not averse to autofocus down the line so long as I can control it and/or turn it off when I want to. Â What would turn me away is a departure from the precision in the optics. I am also a bit concerned about the build quality and QC we are seeing on a very expensive camera. If we are paying for precision manufacture then we should get that. The adjustment screw mangling found by Mark Norton and the strap lug fiasco should never be repeated. Kudos to Leica for stepping up and fixing things (through we will never know about that adjustment screw) and yes, I know that no manufacturing process will be 100% fault free, but Leica can and should do better than what we have seen so that embarrassing recalls are unnecessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamuishirou1999 Posted May 30, 2013 Share #5 Â Posted May 30, 2013 Sorry, but the coincident optical rangefinder and traditional control set are why most of us use Leicas. If you want wheels, menus, and EVFs then buy a Fuji, OM-D, NEX or any one of the other million mirrorless cameras out there. There's lots of choices. Â I think what the OP is saying is that if Leica does any of those things, it would be a deal breaker and not that the OP wants those things in a Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rivercityrocker Posted May 30, 2013 Share #6  Posted May 30, 2013 Sorry, but the coincident optical rangefinder and traditional control set are why most of us use Leicas. If you want wheels, menus, and EVFs then buy a Fuji, OM-D, NEX or any one of the other million mirrorless cameras out there. There's lots of choices. I switched back to Leica from Olympus DSLRs and after trying the Fuji XPro-1 (despite the cost) because I absolutely detest having to wrest control of a camera away from its programming. Focus-by-wire does nothing for me as there's little tactile feedback, and I detest EVFs.  The deal breaker for me is when they abandon the coincident rangefinder. I haven't seen an EVF yet that I can work with.  The X-Pro1 was what drove me to spend the money on a Leica. Granted, it was a used M8, but I ended up spending more than double what I could have gotten the X-Pro and the prime lens. Someone one Nikon Rumors told me I was "out to lunch" for wasting my money on 7 year old technology, but I'm happy with it. I'll likely back it up with an M9 soon.  Anyway, I digress. Back to the topic at hand.  I will NEVER buy a camera with an EVF only.  A shutter speed dial would be fine with me. If it was ergonomically sound.  The X-Pro1 is just too needlessly complicated for me. Which is too bad, because I think the idea behind it was sound and I looks great and the price is good, but...It misses the mark for me.  I don't think the CAN raise their prices anymore! They're borderline ridiculous as it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted May 30, 2013 Share #7 Â Posted May 30, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) just leave the rangefinder a rangefinder...improve image performance by all means, but don't bombard us with all the functions we don't want. we can buy Fuji or Sony for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2013 Share #8 Â Posted May 30, 2013 Let's see the future products first... I'm very bad at visualizing this kind of hypothetical things... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Essemmlee Posted May 30, 2013 Share #9 Â Posted May 30, 2013 I find it very difficult to be critical of something I haven't seen, or used, or in this case, even imagined. I really can't see the point of speculating about stuff that may never appear. Â I do believe that If Leica made rubbish cameras I wouldn't buy one and I have an M8, M9 and a superb Monochrom, which I now believe to be my all time favourite (and I'm old). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted May 30, 2013 Share #10 Â Posted May 30, 2013 Plastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted May 30, 2013 Share #11 Â Posted May 30, 2013 Honestly? Their attitude and that of those around them. Â The more snobby they get, the less I want to support them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted May 30, 2013 Share #12 Â Posted May 30, 2013 IMO, the M is getting close. Too many doodads for this old timer. I think the Leica gestalt is being subverted. That said, I still might pick one up when they become readily available (2015?). Â Disclaimer: I am a Leica hypocrite. I probably should attend Leica GAS Anonymous meetings at least once a month. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Freeman Photography Posted May 30, 2013 Share #13 Â Posted May 30, 2013 Having only had my Leica M9p for 9 months..its the little things like the rangefinder focusing, the feel of the camera and the quality.. Â I have 2 Canon 1D's and they really bore me when I'm using them.. Â I hope they don't follow the crowd and stick to what they do best.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted May 30, 2013 Share #14 Â Posted May 30, 2013 I really dislike the output of the M240, especially with more and more people learning how far they can twist the files. Many of the more popular pictures on Flickr and Facebook seem to be typical HDR-like pictures with unnatural looking contrasts and dynamic range. Many look computergenerated to me. Hold your horses... Thats's just my opinion! Â So suddenly I'm starting to wonder what the Leica community and esthetic values will have become two or more years from now, and if I really would like to pay for camera's beyond the M9 and the MM. A couple months ago I had no doubts I would love Leica camera's for a great many years to come (admittedly quite naive and silly thinking on my part), but I am now realizing how fragile my bond with Leica is. I mean if I'm as disappointed with the next Leica M as much as with the M240, I'll start to wonder if my investment in Leica lenses really was such a good one. Â So... Long story short: a dealbreaker for me is the character of the output. If a future M takes another step in the direction set by the M240, it might break the deal for me. Â Besides this, if ergonomics go further in the EVF and movie making direction, it might break the deal as well. Then again, what the heck do I know about my future self or future M's and how they might or might not go together... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted May 30, 2013 Share #15 Â Posted May 30, 2013 I really dislike the output of the M240, especially with more and more people learning how far they can twist the files. Many of the more popular pictures on Flickr and Facebook seem to be typical HDR-like pictures with unnatural looking contrasts and dynamic range. Many look computergenerated to me....... Â Â ... Â How is people manipulating raw files is a deal breaker for buying Leica products? Leica is not the one encouraging people to post process files a certain way. Â Or are you upset that because with each generation DR improves, and what people do with that looks too artificial to you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted May 31, 2013 Share #16  Posted May 31, 2013 How is people manipulating raw files is a deal breaker for buying Leica products? Leica is not the one encouraging people to post process files a certain way. Or are you upset that because with each generation DR improves, and what people do with that looks too artificial to you? An interesting thought: If you buy a car that goes faster than your previous one, will you drive it faster? Possibly and probably. (speculation + observation)  Indirectly, I am suggesting that the camera is contributing to the way we process our files. The blame probably should be shared. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted May 31, 2013 Share #17 Â Posted May 31, 2013 Well, the post I was referencing also mentioned many of the photos on Flicker and FB were over processed. I would submit that a very small percentage of those have been taken with an M 240. Â If Leica were to quit making cameras tomorrow, it would not have any impact on the amount of photos being posted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted May 31, 2013 Share #18 Â Posted May 31, 2013 The OP is asking about bodies, this is operationally important but digital makes this more transient. The lenses otoh should take center stage, I would rather persevere a body change than a lens change, if Leica abandoned mechanical lenses that would be the beginning of the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted May 31, 2013 Share #19 Â Posted May 31, 2013 I meant the "the more popular of the pictures on Flickr and Facebook taken with the M240". Â This isn't the thread to discuss or defend my viewpoint in depth. (It could derail the whole thread), but let's just say I don't subscribe to the idea that raw files are some sort of magnificent tabula rasa which only develop any characteristics once we start writing/post processing. "Sharing the blame" between photographer and camera is something I could subscribe to. Interesting thought isn't it, that through the internet we are partly responsible for developping some sort of M240 aesthetic. Next year people will click the M240 group on Flickr expecting to see a certain kind of M240 aesthetic, for which we and the camera will share the blame or the glory. Anyway while I could try to ignore the human side of the equation, I find it harder to ignore the camera side of it, if I am to be working with it myself. Â Sorry for the subjective rant. Let's get back to the question of the OP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted May 31, 2013 Share #20 Â Posted May 31, 2013 Plastic. Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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