Film for indoor night reception

[63strat]

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This summer I'm going to use my MP to photograph a family wedding in B&W (I'm not the main photographer!). For the evening reception, I'm trying to decide on what film to use, settings, etc. Would like to minimize grain as much as possible. My local photo lab suggested shooting in color and converting to B&W after the fact. If I do this, I'm considering Portra 400 @ 1600, and then pushing 2 stops. I'd rather shoot B&W film though. I've just returned to film photography, and most of these new films were not around last time I shot film. Will have my Summilux 50/1.4 and Summicon 35/2. Any suggestions appreciated.

[AlanG]

Simple. Test shoot the color film under similar lighting. Then convert as the lab suggests and see if you like it.

[kokoshawnuff]

Your lab is likely recommending color because they are more equip to handle it. Though you are just starting out with film again, I'd recommend trying a few B&W emulsions and developing them yourself or sending them off to a lab that is confident in their abilities to process it with minimal grain

 

Try pushing Tri-x and Tmax 400 to 1600

Try pulling Tmax 3200 or Delta 3200 to 1600

 

These are the three emulsions I'd try just to see what you prefer, before actually shooting the wedding.

[Broadside]

Or you could use FP4 and use a flash gun. Pushing film is not the best way to minimize grain and there probably will not be enough available light at the reception even with pushing.

[earleygallery]

As we don't know what kind of lighting conditions you're likely to face, I'd suggest a fast-ish film like HP5.

 

Take a flash anyway and use it if necessary.

 

As mentioned, your lab probably suggested colour film because that's all they can process, but you don't need to shoot colour film - you can choose one of the C41 process B&W films instead.

[kdriceman]

Your lab is likely recommending color because they are more equip to handle it. Though you are just starting out with film again, I'd recommend trying a few B&W emulsions and developing them yourself or sending them off to a lab that is confident in their abilities to process it with minimal grain

 

Try pushing Tri-x and Tmax 400 to 1600

Try pulling Tmax 3200 or Delta 3200 to 1600

 

These are the three emulsions I'd try just to see what you prefer, before actually shooting the wedding.

 

I agree. I would suggest you shoot as many rolls as you can of a couple films at EI 400 and 1600 in different lighting between now and the wedding. Have them developed (or develop yourself) and see how they look and what you like. Then, since the lighting is unknown, I would bring several rolls of 400 and several of 3200 and probably a flash on the big day. If you can... Practice, practice practice.

[philipus]

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Indoor lighting can be tricky, so I agree, shoot a few rolls in varied lighting, with and without flash, and see what's best.

 

I recently had several rolls of the venerable (but not particularly special) Kodak Gold 200 (Farbwelt) developed with indoor shots where the varied lighting caused the colours to go way off in all kinds of directions. It is possible to get OK images with Photoshop but it takes a bit of time to correct the colours.

 

cheers

Philip

[kdriceman]

Philip makes a good point on the colors, especially with indoor lighting. If you plan to end up with B&W anyway, I would shoot B&W film. If your processor cant do B&W and you don't want to develop it, there are plenty of mail order processors that can develop it and even provide you with scans.

 

Or, I think Kodak makes a c-41 black and white film that your local processor should be able to handle. I don't know much about using it though. http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/films/bw400cn/main2.jhtml?pq-path=13402

[AlanG]

If you don't test the color film and conversion approach vs. the b/w film approach you will never know which you would prefer. In my experience as a commercial photographer, testing film was a big part of preparing for projects. Having a color negative can give you more control over tones when scanning and converting to b/w. You might be surprised by what you learn from this or maybe you will decide that using b/w film is the way to go.

[63strat]

Thanks to all for the suggestions. My lab is a pro lab and can handle anything; he was just trying to suggest a low-grain alternative. For sure, however, I will be shooting many test films between now and the event to settle on something, so just trying to see where I want to start. I'm intrigued by Kodak BW400CN, but there are conflicting reports on how it responds to pushing. I'm sure I'll need to shoot at 1600 for this event (I've seen the venue), so it's a matter of how I'll get there, whether I push 400 or pull 3200. I have not tried pulling. I like high contrast, so the XP2 might be good (I've never used it). I'm going to stick with B & W film though; that's my premise going in, and I don't even want the option of delivering color as an option. I'm hoping I can find the right combination of minimal grain and wide dynamic range. Thanks.

[StS]

For fine-grain 1600 ASA black-and-white, I second pulling Delta 3200 to 1600 ASA. I find the tonal range much better compared to any pushed film. Delta and T-max are like fire and water in the 3200 ASA class, T-max is extremely grainy.

 

Stefan

[StS]

Maybe another point for consideration - will the images be scanned oe enlarged in the classic way?

 

Stefan

[63strat]

Maybe another point for consideration - will the images be scanned oe enlarged in the classic way?

 

Stefan

 

Scanned on a Noritsu...thx.

[StS]

The Noritsu is a professional scanner, which should be able to capture fine details in dense negative areas, hence should be able to compensate the loss of dynamic range of a pushed film. However, since fine grain is needed, my first try would be still Delta3200 @ 1600.

 

Stefan

[lm_user]

Tri-X in Diafine produces nice images with an EI =1000. If you search this forum you will find many examples

[63strat]

After shooting a few rolls of Portra 400 pushed to 1600 (color, and not converted to b&w), there was way too much grain for my tastes (even in the outdoor shoots). I made sure not to underexpose the shots too, but I don't think pushing is a technique I want to use. It really brings out the grain.

 

Now I'm looking for the 800 films in color and b&w with the least amount of grain. If I can match the limited low light performance of my M9 with my MP, I'll be happy.

[lm_user]

M9 is better in low light than any 35mm film if low grain is your criteria for comparison.

[sblitz]

+1. One of a number of reasons why I will not go completely to film and so i hang on to my M9 happily

[philipus]

M9 is better in low light than any 35mm film if low grain is your criteria for comparison.

 

I guess that's because the M9 lacks grain

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[63strat]

Thx guys, I guess I'm learning the hard way. Having sold my M9 to get an M240, but not liking it, hence the MP. The M9 was a great camera, and I never pushed it beyond 800, maybe occasionally 1250, so if I can't match that with film, looks like I will come up short with my MP in that department. (I should never have assumed I'd like the M240 over the M9 without even seeing/trying it first!)

 

In daylight, and medium light indoors, the MP is is fantastic, and I love the timeless nature of the film photos over the M9. But even when I got the MP, I never really intended to give up digital, since its strengths can't be ignored.

 

Such is the crazy journey I have taken so far...not sure where it'll go next. Perhaps pairing it with an M-E and calling it a day.