Leica M Video Capability

[Lax Jought]

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Rolling shutter seems about the same as the 5DII.

 

That's a little frustrating.

 

I understand that flat settings are important for various reasons pertaining to post, but how do you know that OFF/STANDARD/STANDARD/OFF is not "flat?"

 

I have no idea, I'm taking digitalfx's word for it.

[Rick]

Ok, I just checked the properties of a couple of my clips from the M and the bit rate is peaking at 40 Mbs - as reported by Jesko Von Oeynhausen:

 

Jesko: We will definitely do 4:2:2 subsampling. About the bitrate we are at around 40 Mbs at the moment, which is running quite good. We will try to go up now and see how far we can go.

 

That is in the area of a BluRay disc, so it should look a lot sharper. Must be something I'm doing wrong in Premiere. I'll see if I can make a less soft looking clip as I learn how to do this...

[3D-Kraft.com]

First let me say, that I like the video output of the M. I like the sharpness as well as the color rendering (with 4:2:2 subsampling). At the moment it is the only solution that allows to use the picture language of a 50mm f/095 (or T0.95 comparing to about f/0.9 in case of the SLR Magic HyperPrime CINE 50/T0.95) on a full frame sensor. Sound is no issue for me as well as I am using seperate sound recording and only need the sound of the camera mic for later synchronisation. Rolling shutter: Yes, but I did not recognize more than with other cameras I used so far (GH2, Nikon D800E) - but I did not make extensive tests.

 

I would like to add another shortcoming that is important for me:

The M 240 has no Auto-ISO when a fixed shutter time (e.g. 1/50s) is selected. This means when filming at available light, that e.g. during a panning shot the only way to influence exposure is to change the aperture or to use an ND fader.

 

Does anybody actually know what the bit rate is? - Not what Leica reports, but what software is reporting it as. The big screen output seems soft to me and it very well could be I haven't figured out how to render a high bit rate file yet.

 

In my samples, the bitrate varied between 20 and 36 MBit/s. But keep in mind that this is motion-JPEG (which compresses less effective than AVCHD). Leica's specification says that bit rate may go up to 48 Mbit/s.

[Rick]

Ok, Ok, I used Adobe Encoder from Premiere and exported video in the highest quality I could. I've been working on this all day. The best video I can export is very soft, with motion artifacts, there is no correction in camera for chromatic aberration from our purple fringed lenses, color is so-so. I would grade the video as less than poor HD video.

 

I really wanted to see stunning HD video. I can upscale DVDs (480p low bit rate) that look much, much better than this. I really can't see how this could be used for professional video unless it is destined for a computer or small television set, at most 60". This might work for wedding photography for customers that really have no idea what good looks like because, they are going top play it on their computer or television. But, it seems like a dedicated video camera would be so much better.

 

Disclaimer: I probably don't know what I'm doing. Maybe, someone can get something better out of the M's video than me. I guess I don't understand why people on the internet are going to the trouble of using a DSLR or the M for this quality of video.

 

This is so bad that I won't bother shooting video even for just capturing family travel video. It really can't be used on a large screen tv set and look good. What would be the point?

 

I guess I'll just use my iPhone and look at it on my computer when I want to remember our trip. Disappointing.

 

Next. I'm going to go dig up some of my old 5DII files and see if they look this bad. My guess is that they are probably about the same.

[3D-Kraft.com]

Rick, perhaps you can upload an example of the rendered output and some original footage (the MOV file)? This may help to justify if your camera's output is bad or the if the problem is caused in post processing (e.g. rendering settings).

[Rick]

I'd like to figure out why it looks so bad. I'll try and post them later on today. What are you viewing video on?

[pico]

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No competent person who wants to create video will use the M unless the criteria for good video goes down the same degraded path that digital, in general, has gone and that is the ignorance of quality video.

[Guest redge]

No competent person who wants to create video will use the M unless the criteria for good video goes down the same degraded path that digital, in general, has gone and that is the ignorance of quality video.

 

Could you elaborate?

 

What would you use?

 

Thanks

[3D-Kraft.com]

I would be happy to show a video here pcocessed from some small sequences taken with two fire artists some days ago. In order to finish the sound in postprocessing I would like to add the noise of the shutter from the "M". Unfortunately my M is in Solms for repair so it would be very helpful if someone reading this could record the shutter-sound of the M for me and provide it as download link to me (via PN).

[doug_m]

Ok, Ok, I used Adobe Encoder from Premiere and exported video in the highest quality I could. I've been working on this all day. The best video I can export is very soft, with motion artifacts, there is no correction in camera for chromatic aberration from our purple fringed lenses, color is so-so. I would grade the video as less than poor HD video.

 

I really wanted to see stunning HD video. I can upscale DVDs (480p low bit rate) that look much, much better than this. I really can't see how this could be used for professional video unless it is destined for a computer or small television set, at most 60". This might work for wedding photography for customers that really have no idea what good looks like because, they are going top play it on their computer or television. But, it seems like a dedicated video camera would be so much better.

 

Disclaimer: I probably don't know what I'm doing. Maybe, someone can get something better out of the M's video than me. I guess I don't understand why people on the internet are going to the trouble of using a DSLR or the M for this quality of video.

 

This is so bad that I won't bother shooting video even for just capturing family travel video. It really can't be used on a large screen tv set and look good. What would be the point?

 

I guess I'll just use my iPhone and look at it on my computer when I want to remember our trip. Disappointing.

 

Next. I'm going to go dig up some of my old 5DII files and see if they look this bad. My guess is that they are probably about the same.

 

 

I don't know a thing about video but was told to use a 24 fps setting for the M if doing playback on a US tv/ monitor.

[Rick]

I don't know a thing about video but was told to use a 24 fps setting for the M if doing playback on a US tv/ monitor.

 

24 fps is fine as is 1/45 sec for the shutter setting which gives 1/50 sec for 24 fps which is a 180 degree shutter as like film. This is the easy part. Now, try and get good film-like video from the M or any other hddslr.

[pico]

Could you elaborate?

 

What would you use?

 

Thanks

 

I don't think I will ever go back to motion pictures in either film or video. Frankly, I'm too old to start it again. What hardware one uses depends upon the chosen market, of course. I just don't care to enter the environment where an iPhone video suffices, or even excels due to its super-low cost of operation, but especially due to the low-expense videographers (iPhoneographers?)

 

The M has only basic video capabilities, and it is completely wrong ergonomically for video - unless we accept a whole new idea of acceptable quality, and also its limited motion 'vocabulary'.

 

If I wanted to play in video again, I would probably get into the Blackmagic Cinema Camera in part due to its reasonable price for a basic unit, reasonable incremental add-ons, and I can use lenses I already own (including a couple that have the click-stops removed.) But it's late in life. I'll stick to making my crappy stills.

[3D-Kraft.com]

@Pico: It's never too late.

 

Fire artistry - melange of stills and motion pictures:

 

(Click on image to go to the article with embedded video)

[digitalfx]

Theres always the $995 video option for our Leica M's:

[rramesh]

The cheapest video option for M cameras. Get a Flash-Dock. Mount your iPhone in your DSLRs hot shoe dock | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog

[mzaretti]

To my surprise, Leica does not appear to have arranged for the production of any short vudeos demonstrating what the camera is capable of. To date, there is very little in the way of credible evaluation on the internet and little in the way of clips.

 

Are any of the participants in this forum exploring the camera's video performance in a serious way? If so, I'd be very interested in your thoughts. I am of course aware of the absence of an HDMI connection, but I think that I can work with that; and microphone issues don't concern me because my intention is to record dual system sound.

 

Hi, I've just done a video review of the Leica M versus the Canon 5D mark III in which I run through the basic features including how to do filming. Towards the end of the review you'll see a direct comparison of film footage for the Leica M versus the 5D Mk III.

 

Film & Editing Blog - Behind the Scenes

 

The rolling shutter problems are more evident for the Leica M. Both are flawed but are also a lot cheaper than a Red cam etc.

Though for the price of a Leica M you could get a Canon C100 and still have change in your pocket.

 

If you're serious about using a photography camera for filming then at present the 5D mk 3 is the best choice. The nikon camera's are also great but there's more innovation, support and a wider community (support) for the 5D models.

It's also worth looking into Magic Lantern as their work is really pushing the capabilities of the 5D.

You can get nice footage from the Leica M but you'll have to work harder to integrate it into your workflow and post production....

I hope this helps you.

[L1913]

I recently received my M240 and have been experimenting with the video. I love the camera, but being a younger person/first in line when the iPhone came out type I have to say that I am very disappointed. I know the Leica purists hate it and I understand that it is not exactly what the camera is built for, but frankly my $200 iPhone gets much better and smoother video.

 

Even in perfect lighting conditions I notice what looks like interlacing while hand holding and panning the camera across the horizon @ 1080p25.

 

It would be really awesome if they could make the video feature at least on par with something like an iPhone and for a camera that costs $7,000 USD there really isn't an excuse for the video quality and function not to be there and not to have 1080p30 available.